Air Duct Cleaning With A Porty

[Travis Sonderegger]

Does anyone do cleaning of air ducts with a porty? It is something I have been asked about a few times, and I've been trying to find out more information about it.

The system I am wondering about is the HF Air Wave Duct Cleaner.

It would be in a residential setting, not really much commercial work around here.

I have a porty with two 3 stage vacs running parallel. Suction is now much better than the original two stage motors it came with. I would be using a dust downer with the kit.

Also, anyone who does this currently, do you charge by the hour? I am wondering more about how it works and if it is effective to just clean downwind of the filter or If I would ever need to drill in and send it down other ducts, etc...

Share thoughts!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Does anyone do cleaning of air ducts with a porty?

Yes we actually have a project going all this week with our portable. http://www.abatement.com/air-duct/hepa-aireh2500c.htm

A carpet cleaning machine can't generate enough cfm to do air duct cleaning. The Abatement machine generates 2500 cfm, a carpet machine???

 

[Mikey P]

Imagine trying to run 8 inch hose off your portable...

 

[Shane Deubell]

Yes but NO!

Most duct machines are "portable" but not that kind.
Like richard said the cfm is 20 x stronger.

 

[Desk Jockey]

You would actually do more harm than good. Without sufficient airflow the majority of what you disturb would not be removed from their HVAC system.

One other key issue is that your exhaust is not HEPA rated. So anything you do get into your portable will just be redistributed through the exhaust.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Then they turn the system back on and POOF!

blow back

 

[Desk Jockey]

Here is a good low priced setup for an electric unit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abatement-T...424?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a3b667c8

 

[John Olson]

He isn't trying to run 8" hose off his portable. What he is asking about is the Interlink version of the ram air http://interlinksupply.com/index.php?item_num=AC040 now the duct Nazi's are going to say you need to spend as much money as we did to do it right. Well I have been very happy with the results of the ram air as have those that use them and they have used the fiber optic cameras to check and see what's left behind. Now before attacking the system you need to actually use a ram air or a air wave then CHECK the duct work. For a tenth of what you spent you can get very similar results using the ram air type system. Don't believe that's fine but the least you can do is actually try the system before attacking something you haven't tried for no other reason then you spent 10's of thousands of dollars and don't think its fair someone can do the same job you can for less

 

[Desk Jockey]

Different strokes for different folks. I'd witness what a real duct cleaner does, then decide if you have the cojones to use your portable.

Billions..BILLIONS of flies eat shit everyday, that doesn't mean I would.

 

[rick imby]

Desk Jockey getting a little grumpy?

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

I was talking to one of my buddies that does HVAC around here, said no one cleans ducts around here. Told me about how he used to do it when he first started out up north on a crew with guys that would go in and blow everything to the main plenum and had a big vac truck like you are talking about. I dont want to do all that work. I would be doing from the main runs out to the vents and sucking it out the vent side of things. I will explain things to the customer that that is all I am cleaning and there may be some stuff left behind but I am doing the best I can with the equipment I have. Surely it will be an improvement for some people, but not all.

The intake side of things I wont mess with... the air filter is supposed to clean that.

I stand behind all my work I do as well. If someone isnt happy I dont charge them for it. I have only had like 2 unhappy customers. That was running the bissell big green residential unit. I am actually going back saturday to reclean the lady's carpet for free with my new setup. So yeah, with the duct cleaning if people arent happy I won't charge them. I will kind of just try to add it on as an addition to the carpet cleaning and charge an hourly rate for it. Try to keep things cheap for people because it is not an amazing service that leaves things spotless, but it will help. I can also use it on dryer vents and things like that as well. So long as my customers have an understanding of what they are getting I have no problem selling it to them and providing the service.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I was talking to one of my buddies that does HVAC around here, said no one cleans ducts around here.

Sounds like a good opportunity for you. I'd do some more investigation and seriously consider adding it on.

You can start out slow with an air compressor and electric duct cleaning machine and if you find the need expand to gas fired duct cleaner. The electric is always good to have for apartment, condo's and commercial work where gas fired won't work.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

Sounds like a good opportunity for you. I'd do some more investigation and seriously consider adding it on.

With this you are talking about something like the ebay link you sent, correct?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yes, that's probably a 10K package for $3,500.00.

Look on Ebay, like carpet cleaning equipment, there are always plenty of used units available.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

So tell me how I would operate that system? Would I be cutting into anything?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yes.

The "Source Removal System" is a process of putting the HVAC system under negative air pressure (to prevent any cross contamination) and using air whips and skipper balls that dislodge debris which is then sucked back to your vacuum collector.

Unfortunately the vacuum collector needs an access hole cut at the HVAC plenum to attach your collar to. Provided you don't need a license in your state to cut holes, its just a matter or training. Not hard at all with a Malco hole cutter that fits on a cordless drill.
http://www.amazon.com/Malco-2-Inch-12-Inch-Cutter-Accessory/dp/B000289542

 

[Ed Valentine]

Doing duct cleaning with any portable extractor is doing a mickey mouse job and ripping the customer off, unless of course, the name of some ones Company is called: SHOW & BLO.

I am sure that this has been discussed "on another board" by those Arm-Chair engineers who would put together a Garbage can and some plywood connected to a straw.--LOL

Get the right equipment for the job which it was intended for in the first place. Otherwise, sell ice cream cones.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

What do I need to do to get selling ice cream cones?

 

[John Olson]

Yes you need a HVAC License to cut hole and patch holes. Richard have you ever used a RAM-Air type system? What do you think is being left behind? I have and have seen the video proof of the job it did. I am sure your very costly set up does a tremendous job but for cleaning the runs the RAM-AIR sytems do not need a lot of vacuum to work. The compressed air does most of the work for you. I'll make you a deal Richard. I'll send you a new Air-Wave kit you use it the next job and use your video camera to take vide of the runs you use it on and the runs you use your big machine on and post the videos. IF the guys here can tell us which video is which I'll pay you the cost of the Air-Wave and you can keep it but if they cant you buy the air wave at double the price. Do we have a bet?

 

[Desk Jockey]

What do I need to do to get selling ice cream cones?

https://www.katom.com/cat/ice-cream-supplies/so-you-want-to-start-an-ice-cream-parlor.html
I had a second cousin that made a mint with Ice cream push carts and ice cream/food trucks in El Paso. The guy made some serious bank. I think his kids are still running the business.

 

[Desk Jockey]

John Olson" data-source="post: 4364578" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Yes you need a HVAC License to cut hole and patch holes. Richard have you ever used a RAM-Air type system? What do you think is being left behind? I have and have seen the video proof of the job it did. I am sure your very costly set up does a tremendous job but for cleaning the runs the RAM-AIR sytems do not need a lot of vacuum to work.

No.
I don't run portable carpet cleaning machines either.

If it were that easy the whole air duct industry would be foolish to spend all the money we do on equipment. Wouldn't we? I don't see it taking the place of pto's or gas units...at least not until we run out of fossil fuel.

http://www.biltwel.com/modified_series_ii_spec_sheet.html

 

[John Olson]

That's not an answer. You willing to take the bet You got big bank and believe without knowledge that the Raim-Air/Air-Wave doesn't do what it says it does so lets gain some knowledge and make some money at the same time. If your right you get to pocket the machine and $800 if I am right you send me $1600. I'm confident in what my knowledge is at it is first hand so come on you go nothing to lose right?

 

[John Olson]

and I am in no way saying your system doesn't do what it says this isn't a dick measuring contest. Just a simple does the machine do what it says it does. Does leave the runs clean?

 

[Desk Jockey]

John I can hook up to a sink and use that pressure along with a wet/dry vacuum and clean carpet. It would probably do a decent job and I could even show you the recovery water. BFD there are better more thorough ways of doing it.

The video bashes Roto Brush, that is a hack system and I agree I would not recommend it either. He also takes credit for a reverse air skipper ball. Really? Those have been around for decades, we use them and a forward since we bought our system 15-years ago. The vent box is cool but I wouldn't want my vacuum collector to only pull a few hundred cfm regardless of what my air compressor pushes towards it.

John I'm not interested in the offer but thanks! ????


Travis try it and buy it if you think its works for you.

 

[Shane Deubell]

Yes ma'am i am going to do a real good job cleaning the ducts, i mean a REAL good job.
Long as you dont have a problem with me skipping the largest and dirtiest part

Like cleaning all the carpets but skipping the family room.

 

[dekeil]

What is the diffence between ramair vs air wave?
Are the vacuum box the same material?
Why is air wave better price?

 

[rhino1]

Air Duct Cleaning is hard ass work, there are few shortcuts, and if you don't know your way around HVAC systems you will be paying for someone's new unit sooner or later. Using compressed air with an underpowered vac is the worst combination I could think of.... same as using high pressure and little vacuum to clean carpets. Blowback is no joke, get into a house that has a bit of soot or dust in the ducts, now you are looking at a restoration job to clean that mess up... it happens.

Your idea that only cleaning the supply side will work because the filter protects you from the dirt in the return makes sense, but it is dead wrong. The return side is where the MOST crud is located. Depending on the type of filter, the efficiency, how snug it fits, how leaky the ductwork, how often the unit is serviced, and how often the filter is changed, all that factors into how much of the built up crud makes it through the filter and into the air handler. There is no filter that is 100% effective. A central air unit will move MILLIONS of feet of air through a filter in a year, so even a 99% effective, tightly fitting air filter will still enable alot of stuff to get through.

Removing the dirt you can see in a system is the easy part, you can do that with a shop vac. It is the shit you can't see, the fine dust and other pollutants that you need to remove to accomplish anything in a duct cleaning job. Why are you cleaning the ducts, to make them look better? NO, nobody looks in there. Duct cleaning is done to remove indoor air pollution, for the health of the occupants of the home, and vacuuming out the vents will not accomplish this.


IF you are serious about being such a quality minded person you won't even touch ductwork until you get educated and equipped to properly do the job. However, if you can be happy doing a half ass job just to make money, you don't need to buy anything but a shop vac and screw a nylon brush onto the end of the hose, it would be about as good as a Ram Air system and cost a hell of a lot less.

 

[Larry Cobb]

We have lots of customers doing a good job with this turbine-powered brush system and Dual Vac Portables. Your portable should have 200 CFM or so right at the source of this brush rotation.

It vacuums a few inches from the agitation.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=2545

I think the HydroForce electric brush system will also do a good job if the tech is through.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=1440

 

[rhino1]

That thing is what I started with, hooked to a truckmount. It does not do a thorough job, I can tell you that first hand. However it makes a pretty good showing, a nice whirling sound when it runs, and your customers will think it's great. Definitely the top tool to use if you want to pretend you are doing duct cleaning!