Bucket Heaters and Portables

[Travis Sonderegger]

Question...

I have been putting pretty cold water into my portable and it isnt getting all that hot. This could be because it is a portable but probably also because of the temperature of the water going in. With the heaters in these things (I have the Ninja Warrior) does it have a thermostat where it will kick the heat off if it reaches a certain temp?

I have been reading a little on what I could find through the search, some people are saying that water too hot will damage my pump. Does the water go through my pump and then to the internal heater of the porty?

I would like to get a bucket heater and try warming my water up if you think that would help. If not, I will play with my chems a little more so I can find something that works well for me.

Thanks Everyone!!!

 

[Mikey P]

Ive never heard that about hot water in a porty pump


More disinformation from that other forum?

 

[Desk Jockey]

You are probably safer heating it down stream. Willy has a heater he likes, maybe buy one like his.

I used to boil my water in my Kleenrite but it was the stainless body.

 

[dgardner]

Does the water go through my pump and then to the internal heater of the porty?

Yes.

You're pretty safe preheating your water to hot-water-faucet hot (120° or so).

does it have a thermostat where it will kick the heat off if it reaches a certain temp?

Yes.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

Ah I remember the days when I started out using a EDIC 10 gallon , 100 psi, 2-2stage portable.
I think I used it for two years.
And I remember when I "Discovered" those farm supply bucket heaters.

I had a home I had to clean on a sunday..............they were moving in on monday.

I dragged my portable up the stairs and took two 5 gallon buckets and put a bucket heater in each one.

Now I had HOT water!

So I'm squirting and sucking and when it came time to refill my tank I poured that steaming hot water right into that tank!

And 30 seconds later.......I find out.......that that HOT water..........had fried my pump!

So no more bucket heaters for me!

But after that I was considering buying one of those castex "magnum" portables.
Went to wisconsin and met my relatives who ran WM PTO's.
Told him what I was going to buy and he convinced me.............to buy a TM.

By going to a TM it cut my time in half on a job with NO bucket brigade!

PORTABLES suck!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Jimmy doesn't lie................very often.

 

[John Olson]

Call me Monday I'll answer. In Florida so not going to be on much but letting the machine run before starting soothe heater gets up to temp will help. My bad for not talking about that part of the process. Not like we didn't talk for hours but I like have spent more time. Putting in hot water will help and as long as it's t boiling you won't hurt the pump. Also the speed you clean at is important. You have to wet dry wet dry not wet wet dry dry. The heater needs time to heat the water as it flows through.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ive never heard that about hot water in a porty pump


More disinformation from that other forum?

Not disinfo

I believe I've read it before in the pump specs ...like 160 max I "think"
Different pumps may have different specs too though

regardless, all the porty heaters I've ever seen heat the water down stream of pump, not in the sol tank or before the pump.

Travis, i don't think you need to worry either way, cause by the time you pour a bucket of heated 160 degree water in the tank, it will cool down substantially and quite unlikely your pump will ever see close to what the bucket temp was before you poured it


..L.T.A.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

EDIC makes a nice unit that stays outside the extractor easy to use maybe around $ 500 but a quality unit and can be used on other units. jz.

 

[Mikey P]

I have one of those

Nice gadget indeed.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

Is that similar to the Mytee Hot Turbo Heater?

 

[Mikey P]

 

[Goomer]

I believe I've read it before in the pump specs ...like 160 max I "think"
..L.T.A.

Your right, most porty pumps recommend a 160 max water temp.

I don't waste my time with attempting to achieve high water temps with my machine.

MULTIPLE heating stages like Willy employs are necessary to even remotely achieve temps necessary to gain any benefits worthy of the effort.

My philosophy is that there are already enough challenges inherent in trying to achieve quality results with portable equipment without also having to fight an up-hill battle in regards to heat.

Unless your cleaning a lot of newer carpet presumed to still be under some mystical "warranty", don't be shy with your PH and take full advantage of the benefits of a good strong NUKE juice and a little emulsifying rinse, and just fill your porty with the hottest available tap water you can.

It's the advantages of mechanical agitation, NOT HEAT, that will lead you to the promised land when slinging a porty.

 

[Goomer]

does it have a thermostat where it will kick the heat off if it reaches a certain temp?................Does the water go through my pump and then to the internal heater of the porty?

I strongly suggest obtaining a diagram of your machine, opening her up and making yourself familiar with it's internal components and layout.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

I just picked her up this weekend. I have used it on two jobs the mother in law and the grand mother in law.I haven't really had a chance to dig into it yet, but when I get back home I will look things over good. thank you everyone for your responses I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Goomer]

The heating element is downstream from the pump, which I believe is standard practice regardless of the type of equipment, manufacturer, or even industry for that matter, and always in the best interest of the pump.

Most pumps rely on the water flowing through them to dissipate any excess heat created by the pistons or plunger.

http://www.jondon.com/media/pdf/manuals/Ninja Warrior 500-1279544207.pdf

 

[Willy P]

You still have to add tap hot water, but this helps a lot. The bucket heater can be used to pre-heat the water as well. I've replaced the standard 190 degree disc thermostats with 220's.

http://www.selcoproducts.com/temperature-controls/disc-thermostats

http://www.***************/kleenrite-39011-heatrite-line-heater-carpet-cleaners-p-3476.html

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

Willy, My Vacs I have in here are the two stage. Would it ever be worth it to replace them with three stage vacs as they fail? Is there any disadvantage to having a 2 stage vac and a 3 stage vac in the machine running parallel?

Thanks for posting those links as well.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

I guess that question is not just for Willy. If anyone can shed some light up things please do so.

If I had the 3 stage vacs could I run a 35 foot hose and still get decent results? Better than I'm getting now with the two stage?

 

[Ed Valentine]

Bottom line: Water heating elements in (120v) portables are a real waste of available energy, period.


Best to all and some great answers above;
Ed Valentine
cross-American corp.

 

[Goomer]

I guess that question is not just for Willy. If anyone can shed some light up things please do so.

If I had the 3 stage vacs could I run a 35 foot hose and still get decent results? Better than I'm getting now with the two stage?

Yes you could, but they require more amps each.
Combining this with the high amp requirement of the heater may be a issue, that's why most machines with heaters only offer lower amp, lower performance 2-stage motors.

Another reason to scrap the heat.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

That is what I was going to say. If I bag the heat and put the two bags in there, then get an external heater and use it when needed would that be better?

 

[Desk Jockey]

would that be better?

That's your best deal. Use either agitation (175 or CRB) or high PH to take the place of heat and concentrate on recovery.

 

[jcooper]

Willy, My Vacs I have in here are the two stage. Would it ever be worth it to replace them with three stage vacs as they fail?

Travis, as long as you are not getting the vacs wet(not using defoamer) they should last years. I used a porty for 4-5 years, had one vac motor need to be replaced. The only mod, I'd think about doing - getting an adjustable pump that goes to 300psi or so. Pretty sure mine is a pumptec.

If I had the 3 stage vacs could I run a 35 foot hose and still get decent results?

After a hundred jobs or so, you will be running 50' of hose and doing ANYTHING to not bring that thing upstairs!

Really, get a 50 footer. Heck, get 75"! It will take longer to extract, but that will still be WAY faster then setting/filling/dumping/ etc. the machine up twice.

You have a van?
Please say yes, Please say yes, Please say yes, Please say yes...

 

[Desk Jockey]

After a hundred jobs or so, you will be running 50' of hose and doing ANYTHING to not bring that thing upstairs!
Really, get a 50 footer. Heck, get 75"! It will take longer to extract, but that will still be WAY faster then setting/filling/dumping/ etc. the machine up twice.

Jerry are you the antichrist?

 

[Goomer]

That is what I was going to say. If I bag the heat and put the two bags in there, then get an external heater and use it when needed would that be better?

External in-line heaters are the way to go if you want to play with heat, especially in most commercial settings where finding enough available outlets/amps are not as much of a challenge as in a residential setting.

Having an internal heating element in often inadequately ventilated porty compartments does not help the longevity of the other components either.

 

[Willy P]

3 stage vacs come in various sizes and amp draws. BUT -the 8.4 looks beastly, but the performance comes at 13.7 amps at start up. The 6.6 also has some juicy numbers, 14 amps, but those are both 2 stage. You're going to need amps for the pump as well. Check your airflow numbers and amp requirements to see what works best for you.
You can use this site for your comparisons.
http://www.centralvacuumfactory.com/

A bucket heater is another useful tool, but you can't feed "boiling" water into your pump or it'll kick out on you.Like Frank says, the best alternative is an inline system and choke your flow down to get a couple of other things - your heated water will last longer and while you lose some flow, you gain impact. I'm involved in a love-hate relationship right now with a Powerflite perfect heat. When it runs withe vacuum heat exchangers and the 1700 watt internal, it's consistently the hottest portable I've ever used without a propane cart. But the heat exchange coils are designed for 5.7 three stage motors, not real power houses.The original working parts aren't the best quality, but when we do the wanda dance, it's a wonderful thing. I've never run more than 50 feet without an inline booster like this http://cross-american.com/product_info.php?products_id=10&osCsid=afccb520a42b5003a09b9ffe60f4c438. Steambrite makes another on that fits on the top of the machine http://www.***************/clean-storm-universal-vacuum-booster-p-4832.html. The cross american will give you the ability to do some pretty long runs as long as you keep the booster 25 - 35 feet back from the wand.

 

[Travis Sonderegger]

You have a van?
Please say yes, Please say yes, Please say yes, Please say yes...

I have a trailer setup. I will try to post some pics soon.