IICRC.. going going gone?

[Mikey P]

Feels like every day I hear something else about the organization in a negative manner. never something positive unless it's a board member selling me on the future.

While I wont spread rumors, is there anything positive to share in regards to how they have helped you or your business grow or succeed since the hostile take over?
-------------------
Word is they will be putting on two trade shows in Las Vegas this year.
Just what this industry needs, more trade shows...
Not a single vendor I have spoken to wants to support or attend.


Two shoes a year is what the majority wants, one east, one west. Looking at the details of how the IICRC show will pan out, I don't possibly see them coming out ahead in this race of 2015 to own the big top.

 

[davegillfishing]

I send my guys to classes and I go also..used to be a master textile but dropped it..no point in it..

Anyone with time and money can get that paper and never cleaned a single day in their life

My problem with them is also..there is a local guy that has the worse rep around..he sucks bad and he promotes his iicrc certs like crazy so I tend to distance myself personally because he has branded them with sucking lol
Around here at least sadly

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I let mine lapse.

The classes were usually useful to some extent, but not enough to actually qualify a participant to do the work.

 

[hogjowl]

I let mine lapse twice.

But, I sent my son to the carpet class. It was a great way to hammer home what I taught him.

 

[Mikey P]

I feel that as long as thier focus is reviving the associations, they'll never be able to see the future.

The whole gist of their upcoming shows is to boost membership in the nearly dead associations.



There most be some serious money to be made with those things...

 

[hogjowl]

This is my association, and it's as close as I want to get with most of you.

 

[Mikey P]

Exactly.

 

[Shorty]

Who's in charge now??

Is Tony Wheelwright still around??

Never hear from anyone there any more.

They appear to be politicians in training, plenty of promises, but no follow through from my angle.

 

[Desk Jockey]

it's as close as I want to get with most of you.

Be that way fooker!

It doesn't matter Mr Happy tracked you down any way!

 

[Shane Deubell]

They just seem old and out of touch.

No offense to people that are old and out of touch...

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Long message, bear with me:

1st. I resigned as a trainer for the IICRC about 5 years ago because I didn't like working within their training model.

2nd. I resigned as a board member within the next year because I was concerned that I had some conflicts of interest with my training model that no longer matched theirs.

Now that I've said that, let me tell you why the IICRC remains critically important in our industry:

The training classes have very little influence from outside interests and reflect little bias toward suppliers or systems. This lack of bias means that the student (you or your employee) are in a better position to get training that is suitable to your needs than if your training came from a single source (supplier, franchise, etc.)

One example I can give would be fine fabric cleaning training (my favorite subject):

Back in the 1970's and into the early 80's, there was a training program for drapery and upholstery cleaning that said no respiratory protection was needed when using a specific company's dry cleaning solvent. That sort of presentation would never past muster in the IICRC model.

You can also look at the amount of safety information present in the water restoration courses to see the same interest in promoting safety to the operator and the occupants of the home and building.

The way I see it, the IICRC model is not necessarily the best model in training today, but its focus on bringing information to the student that is based on research and the consensus of a wide variety of respected sources, as well as things that protect the owners from liability and their technicians and customers from health and safety risks is more important than ever before.

Thus, despite my personal reasons for not teaching IICRC classes any longer, I still pay people to teach them for my customers here at my distributorship.

I think they are that important, despite their flaws.

 

[tcdepot]

As a distributor that holds a number of IICRC classes a year, I think an IICRC class can really help new companies and new employees get a crash course on carpet cleaning, fire restoration or water restoration in a brief amount of time. I know when I first started working at The Cleaner's Depot, the classes were helpful to me to get a broad knowledge of the industry and different techniques.

Now I don't know much about the politics behind the IICRC, and maybe that's a big reason why they aren't so hot on this board, but as long as you view them as a source for entry-level instruction and training, I think there is definitely value in what they do.

 

[Desk Jockey]

entry-level instruction and training

I would caution anyone from sending new tech's to an IICRC class, I'd train them first in house. IICRC classes don't teach you how to clean, they tech you the science behind the cleaning.

Give them your tech's some basics, let them learn how to clean first. Prepare them for what they are going to hear in class first, so they won't be overwhelmed in the class. Go though the class manual and pull out bits they can learn prior to the class. Go over chemicals and their use, the burn chart, PH, the cleaning pie.

Throwing a new tech into an IICRC class in my opinion could be over their head.

With the expense of travel, testing, time off the truck, its too big a risk to send someone new right out of the gate.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I would caution anyone from sending new tech's to an IICRC class, I'd train them first in house. IICRC classes don't teach you how to clean, they tech you the science behind the cleaning.

Give them your tech's some basics, let them learn how to clean first. Prepare them for what they are going to hear in class first, so they won't be overwhelmed in the class. Go though the class manual and pull out bits they can learn prior to the class. Go over chemicals and their use, the burn chart, PH, the cleaning pie.

Throwing a new tech into an IICRC class in my opinion could be over their head.

With the expense of travel, testing, time off the truck, its too big a risk to send someone new right out of the gate.

This is part of the model that the IICRC has to address:

The classes are good, but if someone comes in without any prior experience, coaching, or mentoring, they will miss out on much of the deeper value of the training and feel a bit lost. For now, its the responsibility of the owner to prep the students. Richard obviously does this and understands what's needed by how he responded.

It would be great to see (and I understand its part of where the IICRC is heading) on line training to help prepare the students for the class, as well as guidelines for the owner/manager as to what prior coaching the student should have before attending the course. This would also be helpful for owner operators of course.

 

[Desk Jockey]

In speaking with Tony the future plan would be online testing to get the basic's out of the way and a true "hands on" for the class time. This way you will end up with a competent tech once certified. I like this idea!

Too much class time is invested learning basics now. This time is at a premium and I'd prefer they get more from the time away from the field.

Changes are coming.

Yes, it has be a slow process but I trust those in position and am confident we will be much better off in the future.

 

[tcdepot]

I agree that's there definitely risk in sending a brand-new employee to an IICRC class, but I think a lot of what an employee is going to get out of it is dependent on the instructor of the class. I've had plenty of new owners and new employees come into a class completely green and not feel overwhelmed or confused by the information, thanks to the likes of guys like Kevin Fisher and Gary Loiben, and by the time the class if over they feel confident in their ability as a cleaner or restorer.

Are there still things they'll need to learn? Absolutely. And there are probably a ton of things each individual owner will want to do differently than what's taught, but that doesn't take away from the value of a class, in my opinion.

 

[Hoody]

This is part of the model that the IICRC has to address:

The classes are good, but if someone comes in without any prior experience, coaching, or mentoring, they will miss out on much of the deeper value of the training and feel a bit lost. For now, its the responsibility of the owner to prep the students. Richard obviously does this and understands what's needed by how he responded.

It would be great to see (and I understand its part of where the IICRC is heading) on line training to help prepare the students for the class, as well as guidelines for the owner/manager as to what prior coaching the student should have before attending the course. This would also be helpful for owner operators of course.

Let us not forget the important lesson I learned about 8 years ago now. Newbie techs can take what the instructor says to heart nearly to the point of being verbal enough about what they learned that could end their job / career. As much as I appreciate passionate instructors, I think every one of them should preface what they're teach with, "what we are teaching are general guidelines and education, you or your employers may choose to deviate so that it best suits your company." I've learned that I'm not the only young one who came back fired up and ready to go from a class to help make positive changes and at the time, I didn't see the big picture. Interesting what a few years can do for perspective.

The online classes would be great because then you can get some of the "boring" or lecture type material out of the way and they can concentrate on more hands-on training, which is what everyone really wants anyways.

 

[Bob Savage]

As soon as I decided I was going to be a carpet cleaner (1984), I signed up and went to IICUC classes so I would know what I was doing. I needed that knowledge since I had no clue what carpet cleaning was all about. I attended about every one that I could, carpet, wate damage, carpet repair, dye school, even that silly guy who wore a white shirt and tie to clean upholstery.

It gave me confidence to do the work and build a customer base. I carried my IICUC card (Cert #1284) in my wallet and would tell people that I had training before I started working, unlike so many others. It worked both for me and my customers. I also enjoyed meeting other carpet cleaners at the classes, and demoing new TM's, as they were usually held at different distributors. This is back when we had no Internet, so there were no cleaning forums.

I was doing woodworking at the time, and didn't really want to be a carpet cleaner, but a friend convinced me to go for it. I'm glad I did!

I too have dropped my certs and the firm certs, because I think their leadership might be more for themselves than it is for us, the cleaners.

 

[Mikey P]

Changes are coming...



We've been hearing that for how long now?



All im.seeing is wasted time and effort attempting to put on shows that nobdy wants.

and why are they not being held in the building in Vegas?


The first show is at a $2500 a booth venue with no outside display options.

The second show is back at the old LVH dump...

And both are just weeks after already existing Experience shows.



They should quit wasting time , money and resources trying to teach Larry Cooper a lesson and work on improving what they do best, teaching regional classes and making the move to online courses
How much longer do we have to wait until they figure out the internet is not a fad?
Online schools should be their main if not only, goal right now.

Wheelright needs to step aside and let somebody with no knowledge of the past history of the iicrc drive the ship for a while. His vindictiveness has the already sinking ship headed strait for an iceberg.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree Hoody.

We tell out tech's to test on the material but realize we may process something differently or use a different system that works better for us. If they have a concern we would be glad to discuss it with them after the training.

 

[Desk Jockey]

How much longer do we have to wait until they figure out the internet is not a fad?
Online schools should be their main if not only goal right now.
Wheelright needs to step aside and let somebody with no knowledge of the past history of the iicrc drive the ship for a while. His vindictiveness has the already sinking ship headed strait for an iceberg.

Only they could tell you but I'm sure its in the plans.

I disagree I think Tony has been at the forefront of the change movement. I think he needs to see it through.

 

[Danny Strickland]

I have to attend "certification" training for Florida DOT in the road and bridge construction biz. We never send a green employee to a class, even though you get a training manual prior to attending the class. It's really the same as IICRC training. you sit for 2 days going page by page, take a closed book test and for some certifications you have to do a hands on test.

I've got 5 certs in 2yrs, use 2 almost daily, another 2-3x month and the others almost never (guess what, i'm using that cert TODAY as I type).

It cost on avg about $4-600 for class + travel and hotel. For what i'm certified to do, I handle well into the MILLIONS $$$ of material testing. You get 3 strikes if you mess up or are caught cheating and those cert's get pulled. I think it's several years before you can re-apply to get them back!!!

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I am not in any position to render an opinion on their trade show and association plans.

I have been too often wrong in judging what appears to be folly in my experience. I was just reminded of this today when my issue of Cleanfax has the words "Thirty Years" across the top left corner.

I was sitting in a room with a group of UCCI (an association since absorbed by the ISCT/SCRT) when John Downey announced he was taking our internal newsletter that we called "Cleanfax" and making it into a magazine to compete with ICS. I was convinced his idea was doomed to failure, and am glad I didn't say so and embarrass myself at best, or discourage a good friend at worst (thought I don't think I could have stopped John from following his dream anyway).

I always remind myself of that when I think I want to tell someone that they have a bad idea

I wish the IICRC only the best in their new ventures.

 

[Mikey P]

Fair enough Jim but at this point in time what does the industry really need, more trade shows or better, more accessible education?



From their actions it would appear trade shows turn more profit.

 

[dealtimeman]

The trade shows will either work themselves in, or work themselves out in time.

It just sucks for the manufacturers hand as it is forced to attend as many as possible to save or show face to the industry, and that will cost a lot of money , and use up possibly limited resources.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

If I were still there I would vote for the needed education goals. I see that as the core mission that they need to improve upon and continue to deliver.

My concerns about trade shows are actually the difficulty in turning profits from such events, as my time in the trenches with associations has taught me.

But since I'm not there to participate in the process, there is too much I don't know to say one way or another. I will say that the current board is made up of very worthy individuals, starting with Mr Wheelwright.

He stayed and completed the task I chose to leave after only being involved in its beginning.

Regardless of my reasons, I did leave, which makes me less than qualified to criticize him or the other individuals who have "stuck it out".

 

[Desk Jockey]

Fair enough Jim but at this point in time what does the industry really need, more trade shows or better, more accessible education?



From their actions it would appear trade shows turn more profit.

I would agree with you on that. No need for more trade shows.

 

[Mikey P]

• We have two guys in town still running around with Clean Trust decals on their back windows. I wonder if they we given a refund and replacement decal
• Maybe the Great Oz will chime in on what the Vegas building is being used for.
• I found it amusing that Barry Costa walked up to the IICRC booth at Surfaces last week to be greeted with a "Hi have you heard of our organization?" from some young chippy...
• If I were Aramsco, Jon-Don, Bruders, Nilfisk and the like, I'd be telling on Cooper and Tony to kiss and make up or we'll do this ourselves.
• Monkey avatar....lol, Tony you goof.

 

[tcdepot]

Here's my question: What's a better option for people who want that type of training for themselves and employees? Maybe I'm skewed since I'm looking at it from the point of a distributor, but if I get a customer in here who has been doing carpet cleaning and is looking to get into the water restoration industry, I'll always recommend the IICRC WRT class because I don't know what better option for him is.

And to be perfectly honest, we lose money on IICRC classes most of the time. For us, we see it as a way to help our customers be successful, and we know that when our customers are successful, it'll help us be successful.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, and maybe I'm ignorant, but what's the better option?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Here's my question: What's a better option for people who want that type of training for themselves and employees? Maybe I'm skewed since I'm looking at it from the point of a distributor, but if I get a customer in here who has been doing carpet cleaning and is looking to get into the water restoration industry, I'll always recommend the IICRC WRT class because I don't know what better option for him is.
And to be perfectly honest, we lose money on IICRC classes most of the time. For us, we see it as a way to help our customers be successful, and we know that when our customers are successful, it'll help us be successful.
I guess all I'm trying to say is, and maybe I'm ignorant, but what's the better option?

If you care more about what you are learning and less about being "IICRC" certified you can get training from the RIA, IAQA. In many cases these are advanced classes in comparison to what the IICRC is offering.
http://restorationindustry.org/
http://www.iaqa.org/education

We've also sent some tech's to Injectidry that had advanced training that was not IICRC certified. As we have other training from various sources.

The IICRC has plenty to catch up on as far as training but I feel confident they will do so in time. Will Mike be retired by then? Probably but Davis may benefit from the changes!