Powermax questions for Larry Cobb

[FB7777]

Rex;

You need to use what works best in your system of cleaning.

The PowerMax would work well without the oxidizer in the formulation.

The oxidizer just prevents stains from reappearing as the carpet dries.

Larry

Seeing how Powermax is a pre-spray and you formulate the product to rinse thoroughly, how will the oxidizer prevent stains from re-appearing if it is rinsed out?

 

[Mikey P]

I already axed that

 

[FB7777]

then clearly its a brilliant observation on my part

 

[Greenie]

Since we're axin' questions, I am curious why the pH of the carpet is not neutral after a neutral rinse agent is used, Larry has stated more than once, and I even think it's on his site that after rinsing the pH is like a 9? How is that possible if the pre-spray is rinsed out?

 

[XTREME1]

he recommends rinsing with water and no where on the description does it say with a rinse agent

 

[Greenie]

So.....if you rinse with tons of neutral pH WATER....when does it turn out neutral?

 

[SRI Cleaning]

I would imagine that some of the prespray thats absorbed into the fibers, does not completely rinse out no matter how careful you are.

 

[mwall2230]

We use Powermax and have no residue issues, I'll do several ph test tomorrow with my digital ph reader and post the results tomorrow. I rinse with soft water and I can almost guarantee you I'll get a reading between 7 and 8.

 

[XTREME1]

I am curious why the pH of the carpet is not neutral after a neutral rinse agent is used,

that was your question. The answer is that the ph would be 9.4 as stated on his site because he recommends rinsing with water.

My Ph would be lower because I rinse with prochem all fiber

 

[Greenie]

Greg are you always this thick?

If you rinse well with a neutral water rinse, the pH will be 7 because there will be no more high pH prespray in the carpet, granted it might take quite a few passes depending on the rinseability of the product.

Just because an "acid" rinse shows a neutral pH of the fiber after a few passes, does not mean the high pH prespray has all been rinsed out, it's just been chemically altered.

Are we communicating now?

wtf is Forsythe when you need him?

 

[Larry Cobb]

Fred;

A slight amount of oxygen is left after the rinse.

OK, here is my take on the pH levels.

Here in Dallas, all our water filters thru calcium carbonate.

That factor alone raises the pH of our native water to ~8.

That is why it is normal to leave the pH at ~9.

Unless you use RO or DI water, you are NOT rinsing out all of your prespray...

Larry

P.S. Mike; I would like to know the pH reading you get after the soft water rinse.

 

[XTREME1]

I have yet to find anything that rinses 100% with plain water from a carpet greenie bringing the Ph to neutral

I must be thick or experienced enough to know this

 

[mwall2230]

I did 2 Ph test today, my water softener needs to be recharged so it wasn't 100% softened water. I also need to recalibrate my Ph reader, its pretty new but its been sitting in the garage awhile.


First Job
Pre spray Ph 10.9
Fresh Water Ph 7.8
Carpet after cleaning Ph 8.7

Second Job I rinsed with fab set ( acid rinse ) metered at 2 gallons a hour

Pre spray Ph 10.9
Fresh Water Ph 7.8
Carpet after rinsing with fab set Ph 8.04

 

[TimP]

That's pretty close to neutral especially when there is percarbonate and if you compare the water PH to the final.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mike;

Thanks for posting your results.

The final pH of 8.7 with fresh water rinse shows a good rinsing process.

CRI suggests a pH of less than 10 after cleaning.

That 8.7 is the pH of some water out of the tap here in Dallas. :roll:

Larry

 

[Charles Anhalt]

Is Cobb's Powewrmax pH safe for 5th generation Nylon

 

[Mikey P]

I believe so but Larry will chime in as soon as he gets out of Joe Pool

 

[Larry Cobb]

Charles;

The "original" CRI recommendation of pH under 10 was due to the original problem with "Stainresist" additives that would yellow with high pH.

That was corrected in a couple of years with better "Stainresist" chemistry.

CRI chose to keep the 10 pH level for various reasons (one being color stability of some suspect dyes).

I have pointed out to the CRI technical staff that:

the most widely used oxidizer in the cleaning industry has a pH of 10.5 . . .

but CRI has refused to change the pH maximum.

We feel that our current pH level of PowerMax after one water only rinse is 8 to 8.5 .

We are confidant that a pH of that level will not lead to any degradation of the carpet fiber.

Maybe Scott Warrington's election to chair a top CRI cleaning committee will bring some industry knowledge to our chemistry.

Larry

P.S. as a side note on "suspect dyes", we ordered a "solution-dyed" multicolor commercial carpet from Shaw for our Showroom carpet. The first time we tested an extractor with "tap water", the rinse water came out a lovely shade of maroon. After getting a carpet inspector, we were saddened to learn that the legal definition of "solution dye" applies to 90% of the fiber used in the carpet. The 10% maroon fiber was conventional dye.

 

[Charles Anhalt]

Thank you Larry! I recently purchased a 6.5# container of the Powermax from you after seeing all the good things other carpet cleaners have said about your product on these forums. I was concerned about pH possibly voiding warranty on stain resistant nylon. Container says pH of 10 but I think your website says product has a pH of 10.7 which would be too high for residential nylon with existing warranty. I have not yet tried it but hope to tomorrow, at a preschool on glue down olefin (trashed). Thanks for all your help.
p.s. I love the smell o Cobb's Powermax.

 

[Russ T.]

I'm about to order a bucket of Powermax. I've never tried it but most of what I hear is very positive.

I have been using @ 3 different presprays depending on the situation:

-Flex powder with citrus Solv
-Bio Break
-Zone Perfect

I always rinse with either Point Blue or End Zone. I notice a big difference in the look of the carpet when I use a rinse as opposed to soft water only.

Can I reasonably expect to quit using a rinse?

Seems like a versatile product that can help keep things simple and save space on my van shelves. Looking forward to seeing what all the rage is.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I'm about to order a bucket of Powermax. I've never tried it but most of what I hear is very positive.

I always rinse with either Point Blue or End Zone. I notice a big difference in the look of the carpet when I use a rinse as opposed to soft water only.

Can I reasonably expect to quit using a rinse?

Seems like a versatile product that can help keep things simple and save space on my van shelves. Looking forward to seeing what all the rage is.

The PowerMax will compare favorably with the presprays you have been using.

Since you notice a difference with your Rinse agents, your water may have some residue.

If so, we offer an acid All Fiber Rinse :

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=1123

Regardless, I think our customers will like the PowerMax fragrance we have developed.

Larry

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Back in the 70s many of the BRIGHT color shags had an abundance of "fugitive dye" that would come off with even moderate foot traffic.

It was just "extra" dye added beyond what the dye sites in the carpet could lock onto.

I suspect the "solution dyed" carpet noted above had very few dye sites left to receive the subsequent maroon color. Thus the maroon was largely "fugitive dye" never locked to the fiber. Similar to being painted.

I remember a Lees mill in VA,1989, where carpet modules (squares) were being screen printed at room temperature for a very high end project. Bill Yeadon was also there, and I wonder if he ever found out how they held up in use?

 

[Russ T.]

Larry,
That's another reason I use a rinse, I like to run a season specific scent during a rinse. Right now I'm using Spice Air from Bridgepoint (I think).

Can Powermax be ordered somewhat odorless?

Thanks!


The Clean Machine

 

[Larry Cobb]

Larry,

Can Powermax be ordered somewhat odorless?

Thanks!
The Clean Machine

Your customers will like the PowerMax scent better.

 

[Mikey P]

Yeah..

But you think Fruit Slice was nice..

 

[Russ T.]

Your customers will like the PowerMax scent better.

We shall see sir. Ordered a 45 lb pail of Powermax and 4 gallons of the rinse you mentioned. Thanks for the help.


The Clean Machine

 

[Jim Martin]

Yeah..

But you think Fruit Slice was nice..

3 or 4 times a week someone was always saying how great the old powermax smelt...a clean fresh smell....one person liked the fruit slice....

smell is important as how well it cleans......if they notice it and it smells clean and fresh.....they are much more happy then some chemical smell or some off the wall fruity smell.......

not busting your balls Larry....I stand behind a lot of your stuff.......but you made a huge mistake changing it..........

 

[Russ T.]

I like to be the one who chooses what scent is being left behind. I change them with the season, nothing overpowering but a hint of a great scent is VERY important.


The Clean Machine

 

[Charles Anhalt]

Thank you Larry! I recently purchased a 6.5# container of the Powermax from you after seeing all the good things other carpet cleaners have said about your product on these forums. I was concerned about pH possibly voiding warranty on stain resistant nylon. Container says pH of 10 but I think your website says product has a pH of 10.7 which would be too high for residential nylon that has an existing warranty. I have not yet tried it but hope to tomorrow, at a preschool on glue down (trashed). Thanks for all your help.
p.s. I love the smell o Cobb's Powermax.

 

[Steamin McFadden]

The fruit slice is a nice smell but gets old fast. To sweet, like pouring syrup over candy. The old smell is way better.