Prochem Apex fuel delivery problem

roto-kleen

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Help! I have had issues with fuel delivery with this machine since I got it. I just recently put my tm into a new van and installed a fuel tap kit that I got directly from prochem. It WAS working fine, all of a sudden today it's acting funny, hesitating, starving for fuel I think, might be choking as I see a bit of black exhaust intermittently.
I have an aftermarket low psi fuel pump and an aftermarket fuel filter with a third port (return) installed. The fuel pump and filter from prochem are really expensive.
My question is should I be using the pump and filter from prochem or what? Frustrated as hell but if I have to buy from prochem I will to solve this issue. I'm fairly handy and installed my tm by myself with little instruction, I bought it as a demo with 50 hours. I do my business part time and I've learned a lot about it over 7 years but I've always had issues with fuel delivery. The van fuel tank is full. Like I said it was working fine, like a top even...now not so much. Please help if you can! Thanks. I thinking about taking to a prochem dealer but that will be very costly I imagine .
 

dgardner

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Roto,

On the one hand you think its starving for fuel, but if you see smoke from unburned fuel, that suggests just the opposite - too rich. Since you're rolling your own I suggest you invest in an inexpensive fuel pressure gauge and find out what the pressure is at the machine to start with. You can find one at any auto parts store.

Plumb it in with a tee.
 
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hydracat

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run it into a gas can with a new filter. If you have water In your tank it will clog the paper in the filter. a v8 will burn water in the gas more than a small engine.
 

Able 1

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IMO this might have more to do with the carb then the fuel pump.. The low pressure fuel pump you had installed should work just fine, though as mentioned you might want to check the pressure..

Actually, after reading your post again... Does it do it all the time? I think I might know what's going on.. I think it's a common problem with the Kubota, but has a relatively cheap solution.. Good way to check is when it's running rough pull one spark plug wire at a time, if you pull one and it doesn't change... I think I might have your solution!
 
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roto-kleen

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I'll try the fuel pressure gauge idea today.

So, I thought maybe the pump was the problem but it's pumping fuel fine. I just don't understand why all of a sudden, if psi of fuel pump is too high, would it not cycle unused back to tank via the return, isn't that the point of the return? I'm thinking more about spark plugs now. Shouldn't be any water, I use a fuel additive to remove that and I actual use premium fuel only for my baby. Thanks everyone for your help. I'll keep you posted.

I took a video and if I could post it on here or on YouTube you could see first hand what it's doing and my setup. One last thing, my fuel pump is mounted inside my van next to tm, is that an issue? Will the heat affect it at all? Thanks again.
 
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Able 1

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Your right it there is too much fuel pressure this should send it back to the tank..
View attachment 4584

Does it smell like gas when it happens? I think it might be a bad coil pack(I couldn't think of the name last night)..
View attachment 4585

Call me if you want.. 262-39one-593six
 
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Able 1

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I found the vid. when mine was acting up..
[video=youtube;cI-EFDEzhkQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI-EFDEzhkQ[/video]
 
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Jessika James

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Hi Roto-Kleen -
This is Jessika from Prochem Education - I just saw this and I'll forward this message to our TM Service Department. Give the guys a call at 800.776.2436 and punch in 2 for equipment service and technical assistance. Speak to one of the techs and I am sure they can help you out. Give me a minute to get a screenshot of your post over to them. Thanks!
 

Able 1

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They look fine to me but throw in some new ones,what are they like $10.. Did you try to pull the wire off while it was running, not enough to kill the engine, but just to see if there is a difference in how it ran? Does it run like mine in the video?
 
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roto-kleen

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Ya it seems intermittent, it runs fine without load, then with inlets plugged it seems to be missing or something, surging and even stalls out. Today it started acting same at a job then all of a sudden it was fine and got me through...I had to hussel my ass off just in case, not a nice feeling. I'm going to replace plugs tomorrow see what happens. I'm trying to upload a video but I'm not having much luck. Not going to sleep well thinking about it...
if you have Facebook account click on link below to see an hear machine.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203054150170530
 
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roto-kleen

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[video=facebook;10203054150170530]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203054150170530[/video]
 
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roto-kleen

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[video=facebook;10203054150170530]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203054150170530[/video]
 

Able 1

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I am telling you what it is, mine was acting the EXACT same way.. I talked to alot of people, when this happened to mine I even took it into a Kubota dealer and they were scratching there heads(ShaneT from this board actually figured it out). There are 3 coil packs(now that I look back they are kinda pricy like $175 a piece) one of the coil packs is faulty on your Apex I almost 100% guarantee. The is another guy on the forums screen name PCNN(or something) that had this problem also.

When I changed the first one it ran great for a while then it did it again!:eekk: It was on a different cylinder, so I changed that one too and it been running great for 900hours or more now..

Again the easiest way to test it is pulling one plug wire at a time when it running, if it gets worse put it back on right away, if there is no change you know which one it is.. OR you could get 3 in-line spark testers($10 bucks a piece) and run it and look at them when it's running rough..
 
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Able 1

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It will work, give us a update.. That is why these forums are so sweet! Instead of you taking your TM in for them to throw part$ at it, you know exactly what parts you need.:winky: Chuck Coffee at Prochem is a real smart guy also, he has helped me a ton..
 
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roto-kleen

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It was just spark plug wire #1 vibrating off/ coming unseated just enough to make intermittent/have a bad connection. Noticed just a small difference in height from the block. Ya if you can believe it! Replacing wires.
 

roto-kleen

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Just replacing caps to start ordered from M-K Group, a company here in Toronto Ontario Canada. Just ran my TM with vac inlets plugged again and the #1 wire cap popped right off the plug, cap is hard plastic so unable to re-crimp. $17.61 each!
 

roto-kleen

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Job this weekend...started acting up again, cylinder missing on full load and during rinse/extraction. The #1 wire cap popped right of the plug again (which both are new and correct part...weird!) and the machine was running rough but not stalling out, just running on 2 cylinders. After the machine got up to full temp it seemed to correct itself and the cap stayed on the plug after I put it back on, ran fine. I wasn't going to risk trying to finish the job so I cut it short to return another day, which sucks because they had all the furniture moved. Not to mention it scars my reputation.

I did test machine before and it was working fine, thought it was fixed. I didn't test it however extracting, which puts even more load on machine, and like I said, this is after I replaced the cap on #1 wire and all 3 plugs.

Now I'm going to order new coils and wires...and replace them...just like Keith told me to do!
 
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Able 1

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I have never heard of spark plug caps popping off?? Try replacing the coil on the #1 cylinder first before you go and order all of them..
 

dgardner

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Any chance you're using a plug that has a slightly different shape/size to the upper part of the plug or terminal from the original?
 

roto-kleen

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Yes, runs rough when off.
When its on and machine is cold runs rough like your video, then when it gets hot it stays on and runs fine.
Its only running on 2 cylinders when off correct?
Thinking the coil is progressively getting worse and not enough current to hold plug on firmly?? Not sure why it would be popping off after brand new ngk plug and brand new ngk cap. What else could cause? Baffled...
 

Able 1

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Yes, runs rough when off.
When its on and machine is cold runs rough like your video, then when it gets hot it stays on and runs fine.
Its only running on 2 cylinders when off correct?
Thinking the coil is progressively getting worse and not enough current to hold plug on firmly?? Not sure why it would be popping off after brand new ngk plug and brand new ngk cap. What else could cause? Baffled...

Sounds like you have two issues here: 1.When it's cold and the spark plug cap is on(good and tight) and running rough it's the coil (cly.unknown)IMO.. 2. When the spark plug cap comes off you are running off two cylinders and should run the same(rough) as when the coil acts up.

The current doesn't hold the plug on, the little brass clip inside the cap does(it's only getting current when it sparks).. I would squeeze it with a pliers, and see if that helps hold it on. It is weird that you replaced the cap and this is still happening.. First off you have to get the spark plug to stop popping off to diagnose any further. You might want to get those inline ignition testers to help you see whats happening better, and what cylinders are suspect.
 
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Able 1

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Looking into this a little more, I would replace the coil on the #1 cylinder, and see if that fixes it.. If the cylinder isn't burning the fuel it is just building pressure in the cylinder possibly blowing the cap off(I know it sounds crazy). Thing is it wont run on one cylinder, so I would focus on the #1 Cyl.. Is there a chance that the problem alternates cylinders under different conditions? Sure is, but start with where you have something narrowed down.
 
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GeneMiller

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Switch wires and see if it still happens. I can't understand a wire coming off for no reason. Did you piss someone off who's following you. Nice soft rubber boots would solve the problem. They don't have to be dealer wires.

Gene
 

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