Why Sapphire Scientific?

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Lee Stockwell
Given the wide range of established labels, and the current distress in the TM market, why did Legend Brands decide to debut a new label? Especially given that they owned a couple of the better known labels in the industry?

What they "didn't do" sends a message too....

Thanks,
Lee
 

Farenheit251

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Bad economy or not,I still think there is an opportunity for a new player to dominate the industry by providing a well priced machine,simple and reliable in a 45/47 blower size. It won't be through Interlink as that would negate the well priced part. Most builders seem to build one to three TMs at a time. If someone was was willing to invest $2-300,000 to build 50 TMs in a Henry Ford style assembly line negotiating prices based on the purchase of 50 engines/blowers/frames at a time, then price to move volume I think they could blow the competition away.
 
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Why go both directions?...buying established brands and then going through the pain of starting a new identity at the same time.

One or the other, but not both.
 

Jeff Madsen

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O.K. Lee,

I give up. What the hell are you hinting at? I, along with thousands of anonymous lurkers, read your posts, realize you're trying to tell us something - but we're too sloooooow to get it! Out with it man!
 

rick imby

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The big car companies went through this years ago and lost their money. Buying Volvo, kia, Jaguar, etc and then divesting them after dumping a lot of money into them.

This strategy does not make sense to me either but let us hear what you think Lee.

Rick
 

Erik

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Captain Cleantastic said:
Bad economy or not,I still think there is an opportunity for a new player to dominate the industry by providing a well priced machine,simple and reliable in a 45/47 blower size. It won't be through Interlink as that would negate the well priced part. Most builders seem to build one to three TMs at a time. If someone was was willing to invest $2-300,000 to build 50 TMs in a Henry Ford style assembly line negotiating prices based on the purchase of 50 engines/blowers/frames at a time, then price to move volume I think they could blow the competition away.
Until then, we will all pay more. Ten years ago, there were three main players in the truck mount biz- Steamway, Prochem, & Butler. Now, you don't have enough fingers & toes to count the number of truck mount manufacturers out there. Comparing this to Henry Ford or the big three, mass production could happen to lower prices. This will never happen, as you will see more and more home made machines made by owner/operators that will kick ass and he/she, the builder, will know everything about the unit. Hopefully, with the purchase of Blueline and Vortex, Sapphire Scientific will be able to build enough units to keep the cost down. With all you big shot carpet cleaners, making .50-.60 Sq/Ft, what's the big deal on the price of the unit??? You are surely making more money than the manufacture. It's the distributor you need to watch out for. If everyone could buy directly from the manufacturer, we would all be singing a different tune.
 
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Duane Oxley

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Simple answer:

In the process of buying Blue Line, they acquired Blue Line's distributors.

Having national / international distribution essentially with the stroke of a pen is a huge value by itself.

The distributor market was already "full", with Prochem, Blue line, Hydramaster and White Magic. Getting another brand in to compete with them would be an uphill battle... unless replacing one of them was possible to do quickly and cleanly. And with enough money, it was possible.

My guess is that the original backer of Blue Line, the engine distributor who had so much to lose, in terms of engine sales when Prochem left his sales territory, didn't anticipate that the business would be so much of a distraction for him, and he soon began seeking a way out.

Enter Sapphire Scientific...
 

steve g

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this is just me thinking out loud and just that. I think what happened is they planned on the sapphire TM's and using the connection to drieaz to help them get some attention. I think the deal with blueline somewhat fell into their laps. I think it was an opportunity that presented itself, probably because of the economy. likely it was not the original plan to have 2 separate TM brands. I also feel like they want to get rid of vortex, I don't think they have long term interest in promoting the machines, hence the reason we see yorkie on this board way more and running some PR. it will be interesting to see what the future holds.
 

Jim Pemberton

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The reason is very simple, and obvious if you think about it objectively for a bit.

But its up to Mr Bruders to answer that question, not me.

I will say, with no relation to this post, that last year through the next will be looked back upon as a time ofmajor changes in our industry. It reminds me very much of the late 70's and early 80's.

Not only was there massive changes in the manufacturing/distributing side of our industry, but it was also a time of change from the model of who cleaned carpet in the 70's to those who cleaned it by the time we reached the late 80's.

Few realize it when they are in the middle of a "upheaval/revolution", but we all are in the middle of one right now.
 
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hogjowl

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I agree with Jim. My generation came in the mid to late 80's. We brought in a better educated, more socially acceptable element to the industry.

Then, Mikey's Board came about and brought the industry back down to the butt-crack generation of hell raisers again.
 
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harryhides

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Good grief !

In the seventies we switched from shampoo to Portys and in the late eighties we switched to truck-mounts and now in the 21st century we are talking to each other and using lots of tools instead of just one. Unfortunately the industry still has too many tools.
 

Walt

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Shawn York said:
[quote="steve g":bo7y1eto]this is just me thinking out loud and just that. I think what happened is they planned on the sapphire TM's and using the connection to drieaz to help them get some attention. I think the deal with blueline somewhat fell into their laps. I think it was an opportunity that presented itself, probably because of the economy. likely it was not the original plan to have 2 separate TM brands. I also feel like they want to get rid of vortex, I don't think they have long term interest in promoting the machines, hence the reason we see yorkie on this board way more and running some PR. it will be interesting to see what the future holds.

Why do you feel that way Stevie? What evidence did you formulate that opinion on?[/quote:bo7y1eto]

I hate to say it Shawn, but the website has suffered. The pictures of the interiors are no longer current. The updated panel picture on the options pages looks like it was cut out with a pair of scissors. It looks like someone abandoned it. Don't mean to sound petty, but the person who buys a Vortex cares about small details.
 
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Our industry could learn a bit from the automotive industry. Let's look at GM:

I bought a new Saturn in 2000. I bought into the promise that GM wasn't dedicated to keeping. It was a great car, the buying experience was extraordinary, and the dealer was first rate. Of course I won't buy another new one. It wasn't the economy, it was GM management's fumble. Lack of focus.

Prior to that I had four SAABs, three 900s that I loved. The engineering was quirky and genius. The Saturn actually shared a number of SAAB design elements. Of course I won't ever buy another new SAAB either. Again, due to GM management dropping the ball. "The bottleneck is always at the top".

"Economy of scale" is often the mantra of managment as they acquire brands and develop new labels. Usually doesn't happen because of the inevitable lack of focus.

Ford seems to be the only US based mfg to "get it", although a few heads had to roll to make that happen.

In our industry Butler is one of a very few that "gets it".

Thanks,
Lee
 

rick imby

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Filling up the dealerships. If they can pressure the local distys to carry all of their lines then the distys will drop the other brands.

They cannot go direct like Butler with only one of their lines because the dealers they have would blackball their other lines.

They cannot go direct with all of their lines because the relationships they have with the distibutor network they have built.

You seem to be alluding to direct sales but most CCers are scared to be left alone with their machines.

Butler has cured that with simple designs that do not change and industry leading customer support. (10 year warranty--they must be idiots).

The margins are much better for the manufacturer in the direct model like Butler but trying to shift to that model from the current model would cause way too much disruption in their distribution. The Direct model does have higher expenses also.

Does Butler have a lot more margin built into their product than say Judson?

If Judson added a 5 year parts warranty and added $2000 to the price of his unit would he sell more units and make more money?

The 15 to 40% that the local Disty makes adds a lot to the price of the units.

Guessing is all I am good for.

Rick
 

rick imby

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Lee Stockwell said:
Our industry could learn a bit from the automotive industry. Let's look at GM:

I bought a new Saturn in 2000.

Prior to that I had four SAABs, three 900s that I loved. .

Thanks,
Lee


I did not know anyone who ever bought a Saab after having had one.

This explains a lot Ivebeensold
 

Greenie

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Rick is one smart dude.

I offered the Platinum $2500 extended warranty with all new TNTs....just nobody thought they needed it....cause it was a Jud (run forever) son.

And yes...the Industry is full of a lot of tools.
 
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Ah, a little like our PC405s, once you learn the quirks they were great. I bought all the SAABs used from people who who didn't understand. Last one from a college student who didn't like the AC. Needed charged.

I mentioned Ford. One of the head cheeses dropped the established "Taurus" name for "Ford 500". Mistake of course, that just confused loyal customer and diluted marketing. A clear focus on improving quality kept them in business.

Butler's model will work for a distributor-oriented manufacturer. Forget the plethora of overlapping models and focus on simple quality.

Butler used to have a few distributors...but that's another thread.
 

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