I've just started doning a little t&g so my exposure to honest pre treatments that work and are not mixed at a 1:1 ratio is at the mercy of the sales floor guy who is going to sell what makes him more in return. So what can I use other that the Viper products that are effective and not as hard on the budget. I will be willing to use these products if and only if they are the premier line to use. Info please and thanks!
Alternatives Please? T&G
- Thread starter Bucey
- Start date
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Mean Green from Dollar General. Give it a little dwell time and you will be surprised.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Alkaline.
Yes it does matter.
Yes it does matter.
Art Kelley
Supportive Member
I am just starting out also and have used Magic Wand's Oxyblaster powder with great success, and Chemeister's FloorMeister which is a similar product, apparently a combination of Grease Eraser and powdered peroxide which with a little dwell really oxidises and brightens grout. Fairly inexpensive compared to liquids as are powdered traffic lane cleaners compared to liquids used in carpet cleaning. Taf mention on the Oxiblaster label that if you need to use an acid to try muritac acid from a hardware mixed 1 to 20 (1 to 10 for really bad situations) and applied by dipping a towel in the mixture and wiping the grout lines. This requires a thorough rinse within 2 minutes. Such an acid is quite degrading to grout so use with caution. Strong acids also allow you to etch your company name and phone # in the stainless steel appliances while you are there so the customer will remember your name.
from most of the post i have read on T&G seems most are using acid treatments. I did one today that was in a kitchen and used venom. THe one that gave me fit was in a bathroom and hallway that was installed 6 months ago. it was not sealed after install, installer said the grout he used did not need to be sealed. I am going to try the renew on it next to see how it comes out. very poor response for the venom though. the grout stayed black. :?
joe harper
Member
Ryan..
Go to you local janitorial supply...buy a gallon of their floor stripper...
Mix in a mop bucket & "mop" on the tile...allow for dwell time...
Mix with COLD water...Either scrub with grout brush ...or 175 is best...
STAY away from acid's...if possible...!!! "Be careful with the RENEW"...caustic..
The stripper is an alkaline...if it needs to be boosted...use Sodium Per-carbonate...
Ps Take the time to mast off baseboards..!!!
Go to you local janitorial supply...buy a gallon of their floor stripper...
Mix in a mop bucket & "mop" on the tile...allow for dwell time...
Mix with COLD water...Either scrub with grout brush ...or 175 is best...
STAY away from acid's...if possible...!!! "Be careful with the RENEW"...caustic..
The stripper is an alkaline...if it needs to be boosted...use Sodium Per-carbonate...
Ps Take the time to mast off baseboards..!!!
carpetcleaner
Member
On 99% on the tile jobs that I do, my carpet pretreat works great with a little dwell time. I just rinse with a turbo at 1000psi. I stay away from acids in "normal" cleaning of T&G.
On the 1% that will not clean with my regular pretreat, I use a high pH prespray designed for greasy commercial jobs.
I haven't found much difference between presprays for T&G vs. carpet.
You do have to know which tile is natural stone and be careful with high pH or acids.
On the 1% that will not clean with my regular pretreat, I use a high pH prespray designed for greasy commercial jobs.
I haven't found much difference between presprays for T&G vs. carpet.
You do have to know which tile is natural stone and be careful with high pH or acids.
sweendogg
Member
Alright,
Mine you this is a brief Tile and Grout intro so bare with me and you can find alot more info by doing a search and checking out the Gold Mine:
Tile Cleaning 101.
Typically the oils and greases that make up the majority of soil on tile and grout need to be treated with an alkaline style cleaner to break up, and emulsify the soils.(same as carpet pre treatments) So most alkaline tile cleaners are high pH because of heavy degreasers. Also most good tile and grout cleaners should be able to rinse easily with water as most pressure pump chemical inject systems do not work well at high pressure levels.. ( unless specfically noted).
The acid side comes into play when you have grout staining. Alot of grout on the market is a sand based mixtures utilizing colorants dispersed through the mixture. The color goes through the entire grout line. When you have surface soiling/staining, if you can etch the top layer off, you can usually reveal a clean non stained grout line. The big issue here is only etching a small amount. And most acids made for tile and grout cleaning are designed to do just that after an alkaline cleaner has removed a majority of the soiling.
So alot of jobs with sanded grout you its not uncommon to rinse it twice with a spinner tool.
Some people will also use oxygen releasing agents like oxiblaster in place of an alkaline/acid combo cleaning and alot of grout will respond to these bleaching agents as well as a means of improving the appearance of the grout.
The problem with acid is it attacks the calcium in the grout. The wrong acid will penetrate and keep attacking all of the calicum components and thus you can actually weaken the grout as a result.
Certain stones like Marble, travertine, limestone are calcium based as well and will etch and erode when acids are used as well. This is most notieable on a polish stone floor. And most stone when exposed to an acid will react to some degree depending on the mineral content of the stone. So this is why you have to be careful with acids. They will also etch stainless steel as well causing big problems.
Now as for the comment about the grout not needing to be sealed. There are new grouts out there are are expoxy based and some that are a combo of epoxy and other minerals that contain sealers in them. These grouts are pretreated and really should not be sealed as a topical sealer can haze or react with the sealers naturally present. Also you need to be careful and preinspect for this type of grout because many of the companies producing these grouts will say big no no to spinner style cleaning.. One example that we will sometimes use in outdoor tile and grout:
http://www.starquartz.com/
Also preinspect for previous color sealers that have been applied poorly, broken grout, loose tiles, and anything that may become a problem during your cleaning.
P.S. ask Scott W. for his free guide to cleaning stone tile and grout!
Mine you this is a brief Tile and Grout intro so bare with me and you can find alot more info by doing a search and checking out the Gold Mine:
Tile Cleaning 101.
Typically the oils and greases that make up the majority of soil on tile and grout need to be treated with an alkaline style cleaner to break up, and emulsify the soils.(same as carpet pre treatments) So most alkaline tile cleaners are high pH because of heavy degreasers. Also most good tile and grout cleaners should be able to rinse easily with water as most pressure pump chemical inject systems do not work well at high pressure levels.. ( unless specfically noted).
The acid side comes into play when you have grout staining. Alot of grout on the market is a sand based mixtures utilizing colorants dispersed through the mixture. The color goes through the entire grout line. When you have surface soiling/staining, if you can etch the top layer off, you can usually reveal a clean non stained grout line. The big issue here is only etching a small amount. And most acids made for tile and grout cleaning are designed to do just that after an alkaline cleaner has removed a majority of the soiling.
So alot of jobs with sanded grout you its not uncommon to rinse it twice with a spinner tool.
Some people will also use oxygen releasing agents like oxiblaster in place of an alkaline/acid combo cleaning and alot of grout will respond to these bleaching agents as well as a means of improving the appearance of the grout.
The problem with acid is it attacks the calcium in the grout. The wrong acid will penetrate and keep attacking all of the calicum components and thus you can actually weaken the grout as a result.
Certain stones like Marble, travertine, limestone are calcium based as well and will etch and erode when acids are used as well. This is most notieable on a polish stone floor. And most stone when exposed to an acid will react to some degree depending on the mineral content of the stone. So this is why you have to be careful with acids. They will also etch stainless steel as well causing big problems.
Now as for the comment about the grout not needing to be sealed. There are new grouts out there are are expoxy based and some that are a combo of epoxy and other minerals that contain sealers in them. These grouts are pretreated and really should not be sealed as a topical sealer can haze or react with the sealers naturally present. Also you need to be careful and preinspect for this type of grout because many of the companies producing these grouts will say big no no to spinner style cleaning.. One example that we will sometimes use in outdoor tile and grout:
http://www.starquartz.com/
Also preinspect for previous color sealers that have been applied poorly, broken grout, loose tiles, and anything that may become a problem during your cleaning.
P.S. ask Scott W. for his free guide to cleaning stone tile and grout!
joe harper
Member
rstrick said:
Tape off the baseboards & kick-boards with BLUE Painters Tape...
The stripper could possibly damage the finish... :wink:
miksar
Supportive Member
I'm with carpetcleaner, I use Extreme Clean or PowerMax(less expensive).
curt johnson
Member
Holy crap...you guys make it difficult.....re-read Rob Litwin's post......99% of tile jobs can be cleaned with a good alkiline pre-spray and NO scrubbing, rinsed with a Turbo and 1000+ psi.....on some jobs you will have to go back and re-clean with acid....
I spent years paying over $50 per gallon for what I thought were great tile cleaners but have since learned that's just not necessary..keep it simple!
Before you blast me and say I don't know what I'm talking about, I've been doing this for about 9 years and tile and grout is about 70% of my income here in sunny AZ.
I spent years paying over $50 per gallon for what I thought were great tile cleaners but have since learned that's just not necessary..keep it simple!
Before you blast me and say I don't know what I'm talking about, I've been doing this for about 9 years and tile and grout is about 70% of my income here in sunny AZ.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
like most have said just go to sams club and buy a gallon of floor stripper and put a scoop of sodium precarbonate in it. let dwell. if grout if heavily soiled or really greasy hit grout lines with grout brush and boom your done. i think it is alot easier to clean tile than carpet.
Mikey P
Administrator
I use to mas(k)t when I first start but got tired of repainting base boards. Just wipe as you go.
and a little "Turbo Tilt" will do wonders to rinse off that nasty stripper !gotcha!
Do yourself a favor and learn to identify MDF baseboards.
If you let that garbage get wet for more than a few minute it will absorb water and swell up. For good.
Also get in the habit of putting your nose to the floor to see if there is any topical sealer on the grout before you give an estimate. Look for glossy/shiny grout. If you're lucky it's just Mop N Glow and your Stripper mix and a good scrubbing and high powered rinsing will get it off.
Get a Malgrit brush for your 175 from Jon Don for heavy duty stripping.
and a little "Turbo Tilt" will do wonders to rinse off that nasty stripper !gotcha!
Do yourself a favor and learn to identify MDF baseboards.
If you let that garbage get wet for more than a few minute it will absorb water and swell up. For good.
Also get in the habit of putting your nose to the floor to see if there is any topical sealer on the grout before you give an estimate. Look for glossy/shiny grout. If you're lucky it's just Mop N Glow and your Stripper mix and a good scrubbing and high powered rinsing will get it off.
Get a Malgrit brush for your 175 from Jon Don for heavy duty stripping.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
most cookie cut homes (newer box homes constructed in 60 days) have mdf baseboards and like mikey said will swell very quickly and if they swell they have to be replaced.
NobleCarpetCleaners
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,191
- Name
- Noble Carpet Cleaners
By a jar of Oxyblaster from Magic and relax.
J Scott W
Member
P.S. ask Scott W. for his free guide to cleaning stone tile and grout!
I will be glad to send the Stone, Tile & grout guide to anyone who asks. I just need your email address. The file is rather large about 10 MEG, so your email server must accept large files.
I will be glad to send the Stone, Tile & grout guide to anyone who asks. I just need your email address. The file is rather large about 10 MEG, so your email server must accept large files.
