Badger, Odorox, and Rugs

LisaWagnerCRS

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Just got home from a fun trip that took me to Ontario Canada, then Nashville, then Phoenix, and now back home in CA. Thankfully I escaped the SNOW all along the way.

While in Canada I put on a rug cleaning clinic - just a day program - but we had a lot of fun. And I wanted to do some direct testing of a few items while there, topics that have been brought up here on Mikeys Board so I wanted to share.

I'm going to apologize first if I screw up the photos - I'm a MB photo poster newby.

Here was one of the rugs we washed - a Chinese rug that had strong GRAY areas in the field. We dusted it with the Badger and got pounds of soil out of this puppy. Tested it side by side with an upright vacuum, and the Badger out beat it hands down.
BLOG-chineserugwithgray-DUST.jpg


We washed the rug thoroughly - using rug shampoo, a Cimex scrubbing, and rinsed to see the results. But those gray areas as you can see, had heavily impacted soil in those base fibers.
BLOG-chineserugwithgray-1stwash.jpg


A couple points regarding this:
1) ANY dusting method, even as aggressive as the Badger, canNOT remove soil that has been attached to the fibers with past cleaning residue. All dusting methods remove DRY soil, not greasy, ground-in soil.
2) This is the biggest danger with rugs being cleaning in the home, or in a plant, using surface cleaning methods and no thorough dusting step. That soil becomes mud, and creates hard impacted soil all along the foundation fibers that gives that gray cast to these rugs. Long term this contributes to dry rot, and in some cases strong odor problems. It also is VERY difficult to remove with standard "wool safe" chemicals and soft brushes as are on the Cimex.

I wanted to see what a standard wash process, using recommended rug approved chemicals, following a thorough dusting, would do for this rug once over.

A regular wash was not enough. Not because it was not thorough, but because this rug had not been thoroughly cleaned in the past (when we first got it wet suds came up from past residue).

Because this rug did not have dyes to potentially bleed, a few things could be done here which worked (but took time) - using an enzyme to help break up the soil, and using a stiffer broom floor brush (stiffer than the Cimex) to brush at the base of these fibers throughout the rug. Much more manual labor was required, and more aggressive chemicals, due to those past surface cleaning efforts. So the second wash created a much cleaner rug. If this rug had dyes not colorfast, we would not have been able to spend as much time as we did on this one.

The other test we did - which I will download photos of when I get them off my photo card, was urine removal from a Iranian rug and attacking the odor. The contamination was bad enough to have created three major areas of dye bleed and dry rot - and the smell was horrible.

We flooded the rug in acetic acid and squeegeed out very yellow water. In fact we poured straight vinegar on these specific problem areas.

After a thorough cleaning - and extraction (using a water claw and wands with a truckmount) - we put this rug in the drying room, on the floor, with a tarp over it and the Odorox running with an airmover under the tarp to tent the rug.

The rug did not smell as bad after the wash as beforehand because we removed so much of that urine. But I was not expecting the Odorox to do much overnight. It did two things though: 1) it removed the odor completely from the side of the rug it ran over (the top side of the rug) and 2) it dramatically decreased the dry time of the rug - an unexpected result, but Tom at Odorox tells me it does in fact remove grains of moisture from the air as it is working. Without a wringer or Revolution I had expected a 2-day 100% dry time - yet overnight the rug was almost completely dry. Running the Odorox along the back side, that odor was knocked out completely in another half day.

I have been around a lot of pet contaminated rugs. I am the "sniff tester" in our rug plant because I am the most sensitive to everything from pets to perfumes to Ozone. I expected a lukewarm result from this test in just one day because the pet urine was so heavy on this rug - but I am completely sold on its performance.

I tested some other things in the clinic - I'll share as I get the photos in order. And don't be mad but I'll be posting this info on other forums also... but because you've had discussions here specifically on the Badger and Odorox - I wanted to post for those of you interested in the topics.

Hope those photos show up! :)
Lisa
 

Mikey P

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Lets compare that to a commercial gluedown that has been Chem Dryed, Stanley'd, Rug Doctered, Kirbied, Coited, mopped and basically pounded to hell and back and then a over zealous Mikey Boarder wants to get it all out in two wand strokes from his $100,00 Vortex.


Not a chance in hell.

Best off just cleaning the very surface and recommend replacement. Some caret and rugs are just not Hero material.


As for teat rug, I've seen workers at the Talisman work on mud cakes like those. Scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse, scrub rinse all day long..

That kind of work must be worth $30 a foot.
I'm gonna guess that you had no idea it would take that amount of labor but stuck to your original bid.

Just like Residential work, you got to take the bad with the good.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Actually, we were visiting a rug plant for the class, and I knew it would be an interesting case study - so I decided to tackle it with one of my Piranha crew. This means the owners of the location billed for the work - but we did the heavy lifting. So their profit margin was HUGE. :)

In fact... I picked the two toughest rugs to tackle - that one and the dry rot pet urine soaked 9x12.

You see... when I teach, I don't want to pick the safe and easy textiles... I want to pick the ones that are a bitch to handle, and the ones with the risks. (That's why when I did the rug and restoration one day events, in Tampa, we decided to play with the pet stained, blue dye bled, silk rug...) http://therugchick.com/2009/08/06/tackling-a-silk-rug-in-tampa/

If I can teach someone on a tough rug, then they are way more confident in tackling any other rugs.

Two options if this had come into our rug shop - 1) I would have charged double for "restorative" cleaning, or 2) I would have given a thorough regular wash and told them it needs to come in again within the next year for another wash - eventually you will dislodge and get it better, but you are right, it does take time and labor.

These were fun ... but only a rug whack job like me would say that. :)

Lisa
 

Desk Jockey

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The rug did not smell as bad after the wash as beforehand because we removed so much of that urine. But I was not expecting the Odorox to do much overnight. It did two things though: 1) it removed the odor completely from the side of the rug it ran over (the top side of the rug) and2) it dramatically decreased the dry time of the rug - an unexpected result, but Tom at Odorox tells me it does in fact remove grains of moisture from the air as it is working. Without a wringer or Revolution I had expected a 2-day 100% dry time - yet overnight the rug was almost completely dry. Running the Odorox along the back side, that odor was knocked out completely in another half day.
How would it remove grains of moisture from the air? I'd like to know how this is accomplished and where does the moisture go?

I can see displacing the moisture from the rug with the air movement from the unit, but to lower the grains from the air? Is there a heater or dehumidifier in the Odorox unit?

That's awesome that it removes the urine odor, that something Ozone cannot accomplish.
 

The Great Oz

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Do some research before rushing out to buy any product. Odorox marketing might be a little "enthusiastic."
 
G

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Let me guess

can you buy an odorox and badger from the Prihanana buyers club?
 

rhyde

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Two options if this had come into our rug shop - 1) I would have charged double for "restorative" cleaning, or 2) I would have given a thorough regular wash and told them it needs to come in again within the next year for another wash - eventually you will dislodge and get it better, but you are right, it does take time and labor.


Lisa


so what you're saying is you would have charged money and sent a dirty rug out the door :lol:







Sanjay Singh said:
Let me guess

can you buy an odorox and badger from the Prihanana buyers club?


Thats a though I have with certain postings from certain people Lisa is part of a marketing Guru's money machine ...hopefully Lisa will be different Ivebeensold
 

Desk Jockey

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There is just so much questionable information out there that gets spread from mis-communication that you always want to be sure of the facts before repeating it.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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This is where you get into quicksand - when you want to point out specific items you like (the Cimex, Odorox, anything Dri-Eaz), sharing the results you got with them ... and then get the conspiracies coming up.

I have used Odorox on mild odors within my rug plant (thorough washing removes most odor-causing contaminants easily) - this was the first really harsh odor I knew to be difficult to kick out, and it did.

I have been collecting case studies from our members on the machine as well - specifically those who handle trauma and sewage clean-up in our community. But I like to test things out personally before I say anything strong about any product - good or bad or neutral.

This has nothing to do with the Piranha Buyers group - unless any of you are Piranha Members. Then yes you do of course save on everything - that's why I created that benefit. But if my purpose was to sell products here, then I'd have given you a link (an affiliate link) for any of the items. And I'd be an Odorox or Cimex or Badger rep and be working for them.

Pet urine odor removal is a tough scenario for many cleaners. Anything that can help this, I want to test drive. I don't trust any organization coming out with their own data - except Dri-Eaz because they 3rd-party test all of their equipment with all of their competitors ... one of the reasons their pieces are pricier, they build that cost into the process. And I have never had a problem with anything I've bought of theirs in a decade. I like, and will pay for quality.

The Odorox machine, and the Badger, are both sizeable purchases ... each more than $3K. If you only handle a few rugs a week, this makes no sense. With more time/effort on your part you can get to the same results.

Here's the deal... you can go low-budget/higher-labor or high-budget/lower labor with rug cleaning. If I have a driveway I can wash a rug completely by hand, soak it throughout the day, and get it looking and smelling great using vinegar, Carolyn shampoo, a sanitaire, and a wet vac. I can out clean a mechanized plant, but it would take me all day. They would have cleaned a hundred rugs in the meantime. :)

Choosing the different equipment pieces - from a wringer to Odorox to Badger to whatever - allows you to be more productive in a shorter period of time. I coach those getting into rug cleaning continually to save up the profits and pay cash for what you need when it makes sense. You can start in a garage for now, then move to a facility. You can start with a temporary pit, and then pour a real rug cleaning floor. You can start with your wand, then move to a wringer.

I'm not a fan of financing. I'm not a fan of spending $100K for a plant and then hoping that the work will come in just because you built it.

I'm a fan of a smart rug cleaning shop strategy - being conservative with big purchases - and buying based on recommendations of others and your own real tests.

So though I have no problem with making money - I am a proud capitalist - this post was me sharing what we discovered in our clinic. Go test it yourself. I'd love to see your feedback too.

But I refuse to be product neutral here - I'll leave that to IICRC. When something is great, or it really sucks, I say so. That's why I am not an IICRC instructor I suppose. :) I don't work well within bureaucracies ... and I prefer an all hands-on course than teaching a test, even though I'm a great test-taker, and I am certified and do recommend getting the patches (but getting other hands-on real-world training too).

Thanks,
Lisa
 

Desk Jockey

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Lisa
I've exchanged emails with Tom and he seems very nice.

He even offered to send a unit out for trial, which we may do, but your comments have me back to skeptical with the talk of grain depression achieved from the Odorox machine.

:?:
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Richard, I was skeptical also ... because I was insisting on using a dehumidifier with the air mover for this rug under the tarp on the floor - and was told to hold off and see for myself if the machine helped boost drying on its own.

I've asked for some data on why it is working this way - the science behind it. It may be heat.

All I know is what I saw and measured. I'll let you know what I dig up.

Lisa
 

Desk Jockey

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Lisa
It could very well do as he stated, I know very little about the unit or how it operates.

The statement just sounds unbelievable.

Thanks for checking into it!
 

Bjorn

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"have been collecting case studies from our members on the machine as well - specifically those who handle trauma and sewage clean-up in our community. But I like to test things out personally before I say anything strong about any product - good or bad or neutral."

Oh come on now lisa we know your MO

your just chumming the waters right now for fishing latter

you mean the Coys annisa and what's his name.

case studies wow
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Terry - I'm not going to create some "scientific soil by NASA" that has no greasy elements and say "hey" this works perfect when it's far from being real dirt in a real environment.

I don't know what is better than having real restoration companies and rug cleaners using different solutions and equipment in their daily work flow and saying whether it works, or it doesn't.

Why don't you test it out and share instead of assuming it is tainted because I said it. I had a class experience the work with me so they could decide whether it lived up to its hype.

So then ... at Mikeyfest - why not give the Odorox a spin? I'm sure someone can bring a smelly rug, or maybe you can roll into Nashville early and give one of Ruth's rugs a thorough urination and we can see what the technology can do? :)

Sounds like a plan ... and I can promise you that if you Terry decide to buy an Odorox machine, or a Dri-Eaz anything, that I will not make a single dime off of you. (You won't even have to thank me for nudging you to try it out.)

And if it doesn't work to your standards ... then I'll owe you a beer.

Lisa
 

Bjorn

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ZZ005.jpg


ZZ004.jpg


FLOOD001.jpg


FLOOD011.jpg


FLOOD004.jpg


I'm pretty sure on this current water damage I have a few thousands of dollars of driease equipment

I'm going along with Chavez right now with the odorox fad at the moment and going to stick with what works
 

Desk Jockey

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Hey, "T" you're wrecking my shot at seeing an Odorox machine!




P.S.
Take a couple of bungee cords and strap that Saraha down and put some weight on the bottom so the ladder doesn't fallover and bust . :(
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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LOL! :)

Looks like I may be teaching in Nashville, let me get those details in concrete, and then I can pop by mikeyfest. I'll coordinate getting a machine there if it's all a go. Then we can locate some smells to remove, I'm sure a few of the attendees will be sticky after their first night of binge drinking...

I'll follow up on this tomorrow.

Hey Terry, heard lots of flooding in your area... Great to see you are keeping busy.

Lisa
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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That air mover on the ladder is classic. I don't think OSHA would approve that here in California... guess I should work in Washington.

And I'm wondering, how is that air mover covered in drywall working as an air scrubber? Good? I love those dual-use machines....

:)
Lisa
 
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