Battering a tufted rug with a badger or wolverine yes or no?

[your_good_sons]

You may know the type of rug, hand tufted Indian or Chinese rug. Thick. soft, poorly glued cotton backing. I just got 2 in today, about 5x7 and of course they have urine contamination....

So I know I can't soak them, but I semi-successfully cold water extracted one of these two back in 2012. I knocked out about 95% of the odor. Had to re-glue some of the backing near the edges, pre-existing, but a little moisture didn't help either.

I know a thing or two about rug cleaning, I have IICRC certification in rug cleaning and about 150 rugs under my belt. I air dust, so it really is a mute point, but would you beat these rugs?

I'm thinking about a beater, but to be honest, my Sanitaire serves me well too. Right now, I use a 60 gallon, 3.7 hp air compressor. Takes about an hour to dust a typical 6x9. I'm going to upgrade, how far, I don't know. Can someone tell me who has air dusted, why you beat your rugs instead?
I'd probably spend money on a binding machine before a rug beater anyhow. Thanks.

 

[rhyde]

Yes, we badger them a santaire doesn't work as well on these or most really thick rugs it's were a strap duster comes into it's own ..IMO

The stock straps on the badger are light for the job so we've replaced some of them maybe 1/3 with heaver strap material

 

[Ron K]

I would spend the time you are air dusting on what Randy said.

 

[The Great Oz]

The condition of the rug is more important than the type. If they're falling apart you're limited to less agitation.

A strap duster wil remove more heavy particulate and do it faster than air dusting (even if you buy a seriously large compressor) so might be an investment that would save you enough time to quickly pay for itself.

 

[GCCLee]

What about a leaf blower : )


Sent from da bak seat of a Purple Caddy where the roadkill is real : )

 

[T Monahan]

Regarding the Wolverine Rug Duster and other similar units: The rotating straps, creating the vibration by slapping the back of the rug vigorously, can and most likely will adversely disturb what weak glue (with fillers) that may be in the back of the rug under the scrim. If you intend to use this type of portable rug dusting machine, then my suggestion would be to cherry pick which tufted rugs are built well enough to submit to this style of dusting. If the scrim is loose, that is your clue that the glue has degraded.

It's a different matter with our big Automated Rug Duster. It has speed control for the rotating straps as well as the conveyor for carrying the rug through the process. These adjustments help to control the dusting process while keeping the rugs integrity in mind.

For best results, include a vacuum afterward too.

 

[your_good_sons]

Thank you for your candid response. I attended Rug Summit VII back in September and was pleased by the very limited amount of commercial pitch. If anything, I can't get Mel from NC out of my head! I know where to get a lot of free or nearly free carpet scraps... and I would cherry pick the better stuff and sell it.

My percentage of rugs that are tufted is pretty high, close to 50%. Of those that are tufted, at least 50% are in rough shape and I don't want to delaminate them. Nothing worse than destroying a rug with $50-75, when you just charged them $100-150 to clean it. Nothing harder than explaining the rug the paid $500-750 for is only worth $50-75 five years later... Of course they want a new rug, not the value of the old rug.

 

[Ron K]

Peter just have a question as to who recommended that size Air Compressor? Oh and Bryan air dusting has never touted to do the things a strap duster can do just as a strap duster can never do what a properly sized and designed air tool can do.

 

[your_good_sons]

Nobody. It was what my pocketbook could afford at the time. I am in the process of writing a new business plan and seeking some funding. First I need a new location. The wash pit is in my driveway, my drying room is my 1 car garage. 200-250 sf is an overwhelming amount of cleaning for me to do. I am also very seasonally limited. Normally, by early-mid April I will start doing synthetics immersion cleaned and tufted surface cleaned. I use a Mr. Heater in the garage to heat it up. 18,000 btu from two 1 pound cylinders. This is supplemented by a 115 volt heater because the gas runs out in about 2 hours and I don't want to open the door and let the heat out. I try to start drying around 3pm. I figure by the time the gas runs out at 5pm, the temperature is up by about 20 degrees in there, so if it is 55 outside, it is 75 in there. The electric doesn't make it any warmer, just keeps it from dropping down as fast. I run a super low-budget operation. I can't even consider doing anything with a woven wool rug until mid-May. Then Mr. Heater takes a 70 degree room and makes it 90. By mid June, it will be 90-95 in there and there is no heater, just fans. Mr. Heater comes back in mid September when I have a woven wool rug. By mid-late October, wool woven rugs are out of the question again. Tufted and synthetic can go another month. I can operate about 7 months out of the year. This year, with the snow and cold weather, I expect I may start a week or two later than previous years.

My goal is to have two wash pits in the new location. One smaller one, say for 6x9's or a pair of short runners or less. The second pit for 10x13 or 10x14. Right now, as a one man show, I turn away larger than 9x12. I can't even take in a 9x12 wool rug for pit washing, there is no way I can get it up on a pole. I have three 10' poles running lengthwise in the garage. If I have an 8x11 wool the was pit washed, I probably will dry it flat, as it is unlikely I can get it on a pole by myself. I can lift a wet 6x9 however... I can also lift a synthetic 9x12 wet or a damp 9x12 that was surface cleaned.

In my plan, I have either a 7.5 hp 80 gallon compressor as my minimum. If I can get 3 phase electric in the new location, I would go for a 10 hp 120 gallon compressor, as that would max out my budget. I also have to get a dry room that I can get to 95-100 at least 9 months per year without breaking the bank. I will settle for 80-85 the three coldest months and only do synthetic or tufted wool surface cleaning.

Right now, my business in rugs is about 50% tufted wool, about 25% synthetic woven, about 20% wool woven and about 5% viscose "disposable" rugs that people can't understand why they fall apart so fast... I honestly don't get many high end rugs. Today I picked up a 5x7.5' Oriental Weavers polypropylene rug that is above average quality for this type of rug, but let's face it, it is still a $200 rug made out of recycled deli containers. At $47 to wash it, I'm fine with that, it was a wholesale job for a dry cleaners near the post office. The only reason i even picked it up was because I had to buy stamps this morning. Pick up and delivery is another issue for me all together. Sometimes it is half the cost of the cleaning when I pay a courier service to drive it 20-30 miles.

 

[The Great Oz]

Peter,
I think a strap duster would likely pay for itself quickly in time saved. You can continue to air dust with your existing compressor for those few rugs that you think are too fragile for strap dusting.

The thought of spending an hour dusting a 6x9 rug makes my hair stand on end, since you've already lost money before even starting to clean. Time is your biggest expense so you're right about finding a more efficient process,

The compressor size recommended for efficient air dusting is somewhere north of 20 HP (jump in here Mr. K., but I think I recall Auserehl using a 35HP) and unless you can find a good used model will cost $10,000 or more.

 

[your_good_sons]

Yes it can take an hour to dust a 6x9 right now. First off, I will run the compressor 5 minutes on, 5 minutes off. While it is off, I am manipulating a rug in the pit, extracting or hanging a rug. The duty cycle is only about 50%. That is why I'd be thrilled to have something with a 100% duty cycle and a 200-300% increase in air capacity. Dust a rug in 15-20 minutes without stopping. Then a 5 minute rest and another 15-20 minutes dusting. In my mind, that would be sweet. A 10 hp air compressor is still a good $1,000 less than a strap machine.
The fact of the matter is I'm poor and running out of time. If I don't grow my business this year, I think it will be the end of my business. I'm going to be 50 shortly and I'm getting too old for this. Nobody is going to hire me to clean anymore and I really don't want to do that much longer. I was my goal to stop doing production by the time I was 50. Now it looks like I might have to set that goal to 55. I'm way too young to retire.
I started in the printing industry as a teenager. 1982-1997 it was a great industry and I made a lot of money. I miss those days. Then there was a 5 year period of transition and most of what I knew how to do was being done overseas for a lot less. I left the trade in 2002, or more appropriately, it left me. If I can't ramp up this business soon, I'm going to end up selling rugs at Macy's for $9 per hour. I can't let that happen. I have to do what I can do and I have to spread every dollar as thinly as possible. My next location will most likely be in a grim 19th century factory that has stood empty or nearly empty the past 30+ years. Nothing about my expansion screams "big success" and I'll settle for eking out a living now.

 

[rhyde]

My goal is to have two wash pits in the new location. One smaller one, say for 6x9's or a pair of short runners or less. The second pit for 10x13 or 10x14. Right now, as a one man show, I turn away larger than 9x12. I can't even take in a 9x12 wool rug for pit washing, there is no way I can get it up on a pole. I have three 10' poles running lengthwise in the garage. If I have an 8x11 wool the was pit washed, I probably will dry it flat, as it is unlikely I can get it on a pole by myself. I can lift a wet 6x9 however... I can also lift a synthetic 9x12 wet or a damp 9x12 that was surface cleaned.

I suggest you make one large pit and make it as large as you possibly can being a one man show your ability to utilize a smaller pit IMO..isn't as important as being able to wash a larger rug or multiply rugs on the same wash floor.
The "good money" is in large rugs the second you finish the 10x14 pit someone will bring you a 12x20 and there are plenty of 12x12,12x15,12x18 out there
Our wash floor is 20x30 and we often wash 2-3 9x12 at a time or a 1/2 dozen or so small rugs at a time




We really can't dust where we're at so not an option forgot to add that in my first post

 

[your_good_sons]

Can't dust? How can you clean?

Let me tell you about an experience last year. I purchased a mailing list about 2,000 names and addresses. You were 20-25 miles from my home. You were at least 60. Your income was at least $125,000. The home value had to be at least $350,000. I capped off the income at $250,000 actually. The over $250,000 group added about 250 names to the list and instead of putting them in, I put the 60 year olds in. Originally it was 61+ I wanted to keep in "manageable" with just 2,000 post cards.

I got about 4-5 wall-to-wall jobs immediately for people who need their homes clean for Passover. It was too cold to do any rugs at that point in time, as I said, my pit is in my driveway, so I lost about 5 jobs there. I start picking up rugs this time of year, but I don't start work on rugs for at least another two weeks or so. Its only 25 here right now!

In late April, my first big rug order of the season came in. Same Chinese hooked pattern for each one, Safavieh, a 12' runner, two 8' runners, a 4x6 that must have had 5 lbs of dirt in it (by the front door), plus a 9x12 in the living room. Keep in mind this person makes $125,000-250,000. When I said $45 to do the long runner, no reaction, when I said $30 to do each small runner no reaction. When I said I had to charge a little extra for the 4x6, $48 no reaction. So far, a $153 order, half a day's work... When I said $162 for the 9x12, gulp... what???!!! The other three combined are less than the one! So someone at this income level balked. I actually ended up coming back to do the wall-to-wall upstairs around Memorial Day for these people and they decided they could "swing" the 9x12 because it wouldn't be ready until June. So they ended up breaking up about $500 worth of work over three months! The home was easily worth $500,000. Why do these people balk at $500?

To be honest, I think that mailing 2,000 post cards and only getting about 25 small to medium sized jobs out of it would be considered a failure.

If you have a big, valuable rug, I'm only about 75 minutes away from Rug Renovating. You give it to them, not me. I don't think there is any way I could change that. The southern edge of my market is in the northern edge of theirs. I think I get what could best be described as their rejects. Like I said, I get lots of tufted and hooked rugs that can't be pit washed. I'd be afraid to beat them. At least I get $1.50 per sf to cold water extract them. Then I get the "better" synthetics. I get a whole $2 per sf to immersion clean them. Hand knotted or even machine woven wool, I get the small stuff and not much of it. Two or three $400-500 rug cleaning jobs a week would make a huge impact on my business. I don't see those kind of jobs very often. I have no idea how to change that or if it is even possible to change it. I have to do what is practical and feasible in my case. That would be chasing after a bunch of $50-150 jobs that are lower profit than I'd like.

 

[Nate The Great]

Can't dust? How can you clean?

Randy Hyde been around the block a few times... Knows rugs like the back of his hand... He meant to say he can't "Air dust" at the location he's at... A car detail place near by wouldn't be too pleased with it... Randy uses the Sanitaire vacuum, rug badger, and now has a centrum force tumble wheel duster...

 

[rhyde]

How can you clean?

That is probably the best question posted in the rug section...EVER!

If you have a big, valuable rug, I'm only about 75 minutes away from Rug Renovating. You give it to them, not me. I don't think there is any way I could change that.

Don't sell yourself short 75 minutes away is 75 minutes away and no matter how big, small ,new or old a cleaning company is somebody is always unhappy there is no shame in being their "rebound" cleaner.