can (or should) this be fixed?

Mikey P

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30 year old wool. All pieced together. Sees lots of use through out the average day. Chairs and tables getting hauled across it daily being rearranged. The damage to the backing was doe when the last company rolled this beast up and dropped it down 3 flights of stairs.


This is the 3rd time we've cleaned it on location.

I've put a sheet of particle board under it and stapled it down but as the rug gets used, the wrinkles come back. (in the same place of course)Usually takes a month or so.

Rug is not fixed to the floor in any way and is on top of so Nomuv.

How would you go about fixing this?

I have some ideas but would like to hear those of the Tool Room Pros.

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After I stretched it out and tacked around the wrinkles.


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George Valliant
That is the biggest wool area rug i have ever seen in my life. I would hate to be the one to make the decision to toss it in the trash.

What do you suggest Mikey? Extra starch, cut-n-seam, double sided velcro, carpet needle and twine, hot iron w/ melt tape, send it back to India for repair, Rhino Line the backing, duct tape?

What are you going to do?
 

harryhides

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I am certainly no expert here and will be interested in seeing what Harry and the Great Oz suggest.

I think that the problem here is that there is not enough dimensional stability in the backing for the size of this rug.
So my guess would be to latex on an extra layer of backing material like monk's cloth.
 

Jack May

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I too would like to hear Harry's and Bryan's comments but I'd be suggesting a small repair of the secondary backing (with jute?) on each of the damaged areas, and then like Tony says, maybe it needs an additional third backing for additional dimensional stability.

I imagine there wouldn't be a ceiling on what you could charge either for something like a 1 off rug like that... within reason of course.

John
 

Mikey P

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I'm thinking along the lines of Tony.


My question is, do I cut open the wound to drain the puss or just flatten the lumps and glue them down?


Some serious damage to the backing as you can see and so much slack that I could cut out the damaged area and stretch it back together before applying a new backing.
 
G

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Even though that is the ugliest covering I have ever seen on a floor; take it up restretch and install with tack strips around all edges and 2 side glue down padding after repairing the backing would be the only way to handle it; good luck Mikey!! This will be a labor intensive repair job; hope ya charging them appropriately!!
 

John Watson

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Bet you could make a few simple stretchers out of 1x4 boards, tack strip and allthread. Stretch out from backside and repair in sections by glueing on new backing in affective areas.
 

Harry Myers

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You would have to steam out the wrinkles carefully ,or block it out on a floor . I would latex and reinforce it with a Scrim tape 6 inches wide. Let dry over night. Also what you do if they dont mind . Assuming this is a wood floor you can put down some tackless and make a permanant frame. I see you wrote they do alot of moving things around. I had a 3/4 yd wilton rug do the same thing. Who ever sewed it put to much tension creating puckering that eventually turns into wrinkles. Permantly block it after a couple attempts . No problem since.
 

The Great Oz

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I think that the problem here is that there is not enough dimensional stability in the backing for the size of this rug.
So my guess would be to latex on an extra layer of backing material like monk's cloth.
Winner! The backing is broken down enough over the entire rug that fixing just the wrinkled section will invite the adjacent backing to fail. Tacking it out won't help as under tension the weakened backing will continue to fail.

I'd use Jute to give it a heavier backing, and jute sticks to latex better than Monk's cloth. Well, at least the current version of Monk's cloth that has a lot of polyester in it.

Roll the rug up, drag the roll around 180 degrees and pull it back out upside down. Usually you'll have to put tension end to end to get the area of broken backing to lay flat. Sometimes this is as simple as having two guys pull on opposite ends, sometimes you'll have to figure out a way to tension. I've used two senior carpet stretchers assembled into one with a head on each end. If it doesn't want to stay stretched, you could try "massaging" the back of the carpet with hot water using an RX-20 while the carpet is under tension. We were successful fixing a 40 x 90 hand-tufted in a hotel lobby this way. There should be no need to cut the wrinkled areas.

Once the wrinkled areas are flat, starting in one corner, spread a good quality latex (Parabond) over an area 4 feet across the width of one end of the rug wide by three or four feet down the length. (3 or 4 foot wide fabric is easier to work with than wider widths, and easier to find). Spread the latex just thick enough for it to get a grip on the backing fabric - it shouldn't be in puddles. Set the backing fabric into the latex and let this first section set up until the fabric is well stuck. Keep working down the length of the rug.

Lap your next course over the previous by an inch or two and do it again until the rug is completely covered. Leave it in place to dry overnight and then roll it up and turn it face up. Other than making it a double-stick installation, the choice is between doing this or replacing the rug.

NOTE: When stretching, pay attention to the straight lines of this carpet and try to keep them straight. If the ends are irregular when finished, trim them and finish the cut edges with latex and hand bind.

Latex and backing: $7.50 PSF. Hand-binding: $10 per foot.
 

The Great Oz

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Unless there's a lot of wear or stains, or they just don't want it anymore, the rug should be fixed. I'd venture replacement cost for this rug would be well over $100k if sourced directly through a Philippine shop.

Does it have any surviving label? If it is a Tai-Ping (which it looks like) or a V'Soske or Fields (which it does not) the replacement cost could be double that.
 

Mikey P

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We rolled the whole thing up the first time we cleaned it (and the pad) to vacuum up the vast amounts of dust underneath..


No label.
 

Jack May

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The Great Oz said:
NOTE: When stretching, pay attention to the straight lines of this carpet and try to keep them straight. If the ends are irregular when finished, trim them and finish the cut edges with latex and hand bind.

Latex and backing: $7.50 PSF. Hand-binding: $10 per foot.

Good info there Bryan.

John
 

harryhides

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NOTE: When stretching, pay attention to the straight lines of this carpet and try to keep them straight. If the ends are irregular when finished, trim them and finish the cut edges with latex and hand bind.

That rug looks to be at least 60x20 feet. So if this turns out to be a $9,000 job or more, make sure you video the whole operation. I'll bet there are a lot more like that in the Bay area and this would be great promotional material.
 
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For goodness sakes! Don’t do anything drastic. If that rug were my problem I would insist on an appraisal. Then you know what liability you’re up against if things go sour. The rug could be worth less than the can of gas to burn it. Or, it could be a gift from the Prince of AreaRugastan.

Even if it’s only worth a couple thousand bucks I wouldn’t misrepresent my area of expertise. Make no mistake about it, “I’m an expert textile cleaner”. Besides, there are dozens of rug repair shops in San Francisco Bay Area who are experts in their field. A quick google revealed one shop that will clean, repair and guarantee for $2.00 sf. I wouldn’t worry about losing the client to the repair shop for future cleanings because it’s not practical to move the rug for purposes other than repair. Another google revealed Pam Hiller http://www.hiller-restorations.com/index.html . She’s a bay area local that advertises appraisal and repair (send her a pic).

If the client thinks the rug isn’t worth appraising, and decides they want you to do your best, make sure to get a release in writing. Then you can hone your area rug repair skills with all the latex, monks cloth, and duct tape you want without fear of lawsuit or insurance claim (if your insurance will even cover it).
 

The Great Oz

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The goal is to get the rug flat and get it to stay flat. Very quickly those wrinkles will show wear from people dragging their feet over the high areas.

If it isn't possible to stretch the wrinkles out and get the center of the rug to stretch the same amount, you'll end up with a wavy end. A straightedge or chalkline can be used to mark and cut the ends and the cut ends can be given a finished look by wrapping them with binding tape.

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Between Larry Cobb and Harry Meyer, you have a great selection of colors. Your local installation supply house will probably carry eight or ten colors.

Fool,
The rug is not hand knotted or woven, but hand-tufted, so the Oriental rug people would be unlikely to have a clue as to how to fix it. I'm also skeptical of the $2 clean, repair and guarantee guy. Since Mondrian was dead long before this was made I doubt there is any artistic provenance to worry about. The value of the rug comes from the initial cost and the cost to replace. A seller would find a limited market for a very specialized, very large tufted rug, and tufted rugs don't go up in value with age.
 
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George Valliant
Come on Oz. Give us a break! Those pretty little ribbons are best used in the next Gay Pride parade than this area rug. However, I did learn the difference between tufted, hand woven and knotted.

What this area rug needs is some Cool Glide seaming of the damaged area’s to prevent further separation and to reinforce the weak spots. Then, it needs to be seriously anchored to the floor to prevent future shifting. Is there’s a good quality 3M ultra sticky Velcro you could use?

I would start in the center and work my way outwards until it’s securely anchored to the floor in all directions. If the edges aren’t perfectly plumb afterwards so what. Who care’s? From the pic’s the room is cluttered with podiums, chair’s, love seats etc… I bet nobody would notice, or care, if it’s not perfectly square.

Did you say something about a pad underneath? I didn’t see it in the pic’s. If there is a pad then we have a problem anchoring it to the floor. But, you have nothing to lose by Cool Gliding the weak and broken seams. If it doesn’t work out you can always re-activate the tape and remove.

Anyhow, it will be fun to see how this plays out. Please keep us posted of the outcome. Good luck!
 

Harry Myers

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Just layed a 15 x 25 2 weeks ago Hand Tufted $30,000.00. My repair was to look like the hand tufted by using scrim tape 6 inches wide. I have seen where when people who used monks cloth actually lock in wrinkles. Well as Bryan or I said it is still the same basics. Here is another question Mikey what type of cushion is down now.
 

Mikey P

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There is a funky old piece of Horse hair if I remember correctly that is 2 feet too short all the way around.


The DO NOT want the rug anchored to the hard wood floor either.
 
M

Mark Imbesi

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O Great Oz! That is some seriously awesome advice! Thanks for taking the time to post your knowledge! But I have a question:


Why not apply another coat of latex over the entire backing?

Thanks again!

PS - Mikey, wanna send me over there to help ya?
 

The Great Oz

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Fool, No sweat. I've posted plenty of ignorant stuff and been forgiven. :D (I posted a "smilie" so you're supposed to smile.)

Harry, The stretch is the key. If the rug is flat, no worries about locking in a wrinkle. The only reason I would not want to do the scrim tape is that often a rug in this condition will just end up with weak areas that turn into bumps on each side of the scrim repair. Scrim enough and you might as well put on a full backing.

You're right about the pad. If the backing wasn't in such bad shape already I'd think a Durahold alone might fix the problem.

Marc, More latex would make the rug stronger, and the back prettier, but would also make the rug heavier and add to the cost. Since one coat of latex and fabric would probably be effective, more might just be considered overkill. Depends on the condition of the face of the rug and how much they like it though.

The CHEEEEPiST fix would be to use a dry lock adhesive felt to "glue" the rug to the floor. It will come off both rug and floor easily, unless it gets left in place for say, eight years :oops: It takes some effort to get it off hardwood when left that long. wundergrip.com Look for Wunderlock.
 

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