Chemspec Gold Standards

[jrizo1]

I pick up a Chemspec Guide from a local supplier yesterday and was just writing in when I notice something that I though it was interesting
note how on the residential Prespray all the chemicals PH is 9.7 and the Rinse PH is 4.1 it make sense
note how o the commercial Prespray all the chemicals PH is 11.0 and the Rinse PH is over 10.0
that does nome make sense to me.
am I Wrong?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

"Rinse" and "Neutralize" are terms we don't always use correctly in our industry:

1. Rinse: When we are describing "rinsing", it usually implies removing detergent and leaving the textile (carpet/upholstery) relatively residue free. That's something that is difficult to do completely; even in a laundry cycle there is residue left after the rinse cycle. (Ask anyone with sensitive skin if the "wrong" laundry detergent is used). In carpet and upholstery cleaning, its even more difficult.

What you "rinse" with can be a detergent (even alkaline...such products remove some traffic lane cleaner residue best because they break down the components of that prespray better than clear water or acid), an acid rinse, or clear water.

Whether rinsed with soft, "RO", or even "DI" water, nothing is completely free of residue after rinsing, even rugs that are immersed in water and flushed over and over again. But many cleaners do (and should) try to leave as little residue as practically possible. Textiles stay cleaner longer, and protector bonds better, when you do.

2. Neutralize: This one is a little tricky. While a pH listed on a label may seem to be "just right" to neutralize another (such as the prespray and acid listed) its extraordinarily difficult to get a true "pH balance" when following an alkaline with an acid. But there are some benefits of neutralizing alkaline residues when cleaning some textiles, including the prevention of bleeding, browning, and some other color related issues. The hand of the textile is also improved when alkaline residues are neutralized. Spraying an acid rinse on a textile after cleaning, but not extracting yet again (with "wet" vacuuming or absorbent bonnet or toweling) does not remove residues, it just leaves a neutral residue.

Just remember, you can rinse without neutralizing, and you can neutralize without rinsing.

Last thought: Using an alkaline cleaning agent in your injection solution ("rinse" not being the best possible term here), is not necessarily bad. Despite information bandied about in our industry, I was involved in a meeting of fiber producers and carpet manufacturers, and none would state for the record an ideal "remaining" pH for carpet. They only said they wanted as little surfactant residue as possible (regardless of pH) left behind.

 

[hogjowl]

Jims perky on Sunday mornings. Who knew?

 

[Pat Muller]

The major point here is the soil load
In a restoration cleaning we as cleaners need to remove the maximum amount of soil
Most acid rinses will neutralize pH of the prespray but do not add much cleaning power
The guides were put together to accomplish just that, maximum soil removal
In a perfect world we always prespray alkaline and rinse with an acid
In restoration cleanings we need the additional cleaning power of an alkaline emulsifier
Once the carpet is clean to a maintenance cleaning level we can always rinse with an acid

Hope this helps

 

[hogjowl]

In a perfect world we always prespray alkaline and rinse with an acid

Why is that?

 

[Pat Muller]

To neutralize pH and remove detergent residue
That keeps carpets cleaner longer

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Jims perky on Sunday mornings. Who knew?

Had a good snake bite yesterday. I think it bled out all of my lethargy and started my morning better.

Seriously, I'm a regular Mark Saiger in the morning. In the evening, not so much.

 

[hogjowl]

To neutralize pH and remove detergent residue
That keeps carpets cleaner longer

You sure it rinses better?

 

[dgardner]

Seriously, I'm a regular Mark Saiger in the morning

Video?

 

[Ron K]

You sure it rinses better?

Please define "Rinses Better"?
Also Chemistry isn't the only piece of the "pie" used to clean remember Time,Heat,Aggertation, and Chemistree!
I don't know why soil/residue/cleaning agent removal isn't in the pie. Don't you need that to "clean"?

 

[SamIam]

I like how one guy used to put it, put soap on your hand rinse with water then rinse with vinegar you can feel the surfactant rinse away. But I wonder a product like dry slurry or formula 90 were supposed to dry to a crystalline.

Minimum residue? Does the crystalline vacuum away like a encap?

To much soap in a carpet it can feel crunchy. I think when people double and triple formulas for more pop that's when you have problems.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Video?

The biology students I had with me took some pictures when I compared how the bite from the water snake bled freely, where the bite I received from a ratsnake (a constrictor that doesn't need its prey to bleed to death to kill) hardly bled at all.

I'll see if one of them will send me a pic.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

To much soap in a carpet it can feel crunchy. I think when people double and triple formulas for more pop that's when you have problems

Exactly Sam.

 

[Mikey P]

Yeah..
More chem vs more aggitation is not good.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

You sure it rinses better?

There is evidence based on tests from the laundry industry that items rinsed with an acidic rinse agent remove more surfactant than when rinsed by water alone. The test is most significant when comparing rinsing with hard water versus an acidic rinse, though the acid rinse (in the test) still rinsed better than soft water.

To be fair, the test was done with an anionic detergent, where most of our powders are non ionic, and the material was a wool garment, not synthetic fiber upholstery or carpet. Still, wool tends to hold onto moisture (and hence, likely residue) more than synthetic fibers would.

While no lab tests exist that I know of, textiles rinsed with some acidic rinse agents appear to exhibit less resoiling than those that aren't.

Where trouble begins is when cleaners try to save time and just spray an acid based "rinse agent" onto a carpet or item of upholstery without extracting afterward. This simply leaves a neutralized residue. Also, some acid rinse agents attract soil.

But that's another story for another time.

 

[hogjowl]

Compared to plain water. What about an alkaline rinse?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Compared to plain water. What about an alkaline rinse?

I'm not aware of any such tests Marty.

However....

Back in the late 70's/early 80's Chemspec did a test where half of a carpet was cleaned with a hot water extraction, using a detergent in the solution tank, and the other half was cleaned with a Chemstractor, using their soil retardant shampoo. There was actually less detergent residue in the carpet that was cleaned by the Chemstractor. The thought was that though it wasn't rinsed, only wet vacuumed, so much less water was used that the amount of detergent left behind was less than with the extractor.

As I recall, the hot water extractor was a portable.

I don't know if Pat would have access to that test or not.

 

[hogjowl]

I am unable to determine if that helped.
But, I'm certain you just left the door wide open and Tricky Ricky is about to come in.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I am unable to determine if that helped.
But, I'm certain you just left the door wide open and Tricky Ricky is about to come in.

I don't know that it helped much, except that there was evidence, based on their testing, that HWE left more residue that "shampoo extraction" as it was at the time.

The product used in the portable was Liqua Steam, if I remember right, which was a 2 oz per gallon liquid that was commonly used before the "super liquids", such as Liquid 77 came about that were diluted at 2 oz. per 5 gallons. The portable was one Chemspec private labeled, and I forget the original manufacturer. It was a fiberglass box with either a single 3 stage vacuum or two-2 stage vacuums. The pump was either 50 psi or 100, and I don't believe they presprayed it.

That about exhausts the memory I have of that test.

I don't know that it would compare well with the types of detergents we use today, and the ratio of about 256 to 1 we usually use through a truck mount.

 

[ruff]

For whatever it's worth and definitely not super scientific.
A while ago, I've tested in my home (that way I could really see how it did as time progressed) a few different cleaning methods. I did it three different times.

I cleaned three parts of the carpet with:

1. Pre-spray and an acid rinse.
2. Prespray and an alkaline rinse
3. Pre-spray and just water rinse.

It was done in an area that had the same exposure to traffic, coming from the kitchen. After I was done, they all looked good, no appearance difference.

• As time progressed, the water rinsed carpet re-soiled a lot faster.
  
• Both water rinsed and acid rinsed, had a more stains re-appear (wick?).
• Both acid rinsed and alkaline rinsed re-soiled in the the same pace (very slow). Acid rinsed had a softer touch. Alkaline rinsed was stiffer and retained upright position a little better for a little longer.

In addition, I also cleaned once with just the alkaline solution (metered 2-3, Dry Slurry) on some stains it took a little longer but it did great, same level of re-soiling.

 

[Desk Jockey]

how about a protector study?

 

[SamIam]

What for Laura from you???

Zing