Do you agree with these numbers?

Desk Jockey

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The problem with these numbers is they are generally computations taken from polling cleaners. The numbers are not accurate.

The other approach I see Xactimate take is they clean a small section then apply that towards a big number. Unfortunately its not real world, where you wear down, breaks are needed. Replenishing of materials, water, fuel are required, relocation of the vehicles.
 
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ruff

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I don't know.
Being a student of this board and its posts I've learned that my fellow cleaners:
  1. Get every single stain out, every single time. Always.
  2. Any carpet cleaned by them looks brand new when they are done. Even 55 years old carpet. Every single time. Always.

So, yes, I believe those numbers. Yep. Always.
 

Jimmy L

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If you don't believe everything you read here you are a FAILURE!

Carpet cleaners don't lie or speak BS!
 
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Nomad74

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I don't know.
Being a student of this board and its posts I've learned that my fellow cleaners:
  1. Get every single stain out, every single time. Always.
  2. Any carpet cleaned by them looks brand new when they are done. Even 55 years old carpet. Every single time. Always.

So, yes, I believe those numbers. Yep. Always.
I guess I'm a hack
 

Jim Pemberton

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Mike, did you get the source of this information yet?

With all of the "sturm und drang" that this has caused, it would be more constructive for us all if we knew what study this came from.

I hope it isn't what I think it is...
 
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Jim Pemberton

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I didn't want to "out" him. I know he meant well.

I smell a whiff of an organization with a few "I"s in it....but I'm not sure
 

doylebloss

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WOW. See what happens when I am away from the computer mostly for a few days. I don't know If I should take pride in creating such a lively topic or run for cover and change my name and enter the witness protection program. My original post was simply a response to a young cleaner who was asking about average production rates and was getting answers that were all over the board. Most everyone wants to inject their way of doing things into average numbers. As soon as you do that, they are no longer "average." People who read this forum are mostly not "average" - and I say that in a complementary way.
So, let me address several questions/comments/threats/ and "accusations"

1) The original source of most of these benchmarks was a study done that was slanted toward commercial carpet cleaning training, and was focused on how to write bids on large commercial jobs. The original source (at least where I first got it from) was Cleaning Maintenance Institute in conjunction with Cleaning Management Magazine and Cleanfax Magazine. I can't answer for how peer reviewed they were at the time. I can tell you most of them were published. There was a lot of "peer" review and chances for input and argument many many times since then.

2) For the cleaning methods that were originally not included in the benchmark study, there was some consultation with manufacturers of equipment and/or chemicals for some input - thus there may have been "equipment salespeople" involved.

3) The primary purpose of these numbers is to help a cleaning contractor who is writing bids on a job have some idea of how long a specific job is going to take him/her. It is not meant to stir up a prevacuuming debate; do you charge for stain removal; what about stairs etc. discussion although now Mike has a good way to do that when things get boring.

4) Reread the beginning paragraph.

5) I suggest that Mikeysboard take this up as a project - to create a "benchmark study of your own. " What you will find is a ton of disagreement as companies have a wide variance in how things are done, and how concientious to be about certain activities.In the end, you will reach some average numbers, and there will be those who say they are too low and too high. The great thing is, it will be very useful to newer companies, or companies who are especially trying to get into Class A commercial cleaning and do not have a lot of experience.

Remember - A benchmark is an average collected over a wide number and variety of businesses - everything (in this case) from a high speed bonnet cleaning only building service contractor to a meticulous hot water extraction high end residential carpet cleaning company. It is never meant to be a critique of your way of doing things or to tell you you charge too little or too much.

One final comment - keep in mind - in the commercial Class A world of carpet cleaning - there are companies who figure out how to be very very fast, and still be good. Just down the road from me is a company who does $6 million a year in commercial carpet cleaning only. They employ encap, portables, bonnet, and truckmounts. They turn down residential work - don't want it as they say it "isn't profitable enough and the clients are too picky". They likely do not charge near what you would charge for cleaning the carpet in a bank. Their margins though are quite healthy. That is the beautiful thing about this business - you can do it your way and find enough customers to build a successful business.

Hope that helps - and if you still hate the numbers - get busy on a thread and develop some of your own. I will help publish them and spread them around.
 

Nomad74

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WOW. See what happens when I am away from the computer mostly for a few days. I don't know If I should take pride in creating such a lively topic or run for cover and change my name and enter the witness protection program. My original post was simply a response to a young cleaner who was asking about average production rates and was getting answers that were all over the board. Most everyone wants to inject their way of doing things into average numbers. As soon as you do that, they are no longer "average." People who read this forum are mostly not "average" - and I say that in a complementary way.
So, let me address several questions/comments/threats/ and "accusations"
1) The original source of most of these benchmarks was a study done that was slanted toward commercial carpet cleaning training, and was focused on how to write bids on large commercial jobs. The original source (at least where I first got it from) was Cleaning Maintenance Institute in conjunction with Cleaning Management Magazine and Cleanfax Magazine. I can't answer for how peer reviewed they were at the time. I can tell you most of them were published. There was a lot of "peer" review and chances for input and argument many many times since then.
2) For the cleaning methods that were originally not included in the benchmark study, there was some consultation with manufacturers of equipment and/or chemicals for some input - thus there may have been "equipment salespeople" involved.
3) The primary purpose of these numbers is to help a cleaning contractor who is writing bids on a job have some idea of how long a specific job is going to take him/her. It is not meant to stir up a prevacuuming debate; do you charge for stain removal; what about stairs etc. discussion although now Mike has a good way to do that when things get boring.
4) Reread the beginning paragraph.
5) I suggest that Mikeysboard take this up as a project - to create a "benchmark study of your own. " What you will find is a ton of disagreement as companies have a wide variance in how things are done, and how concientious to be about certain activities.In the end, you will reach some average numbers, and there will be those who say they are too low and too high. The great thing is, it will be very useful to newer companies, or companies who are especially trying to get into Class A commercial cleaning and do not have a lot of experience.
Remember - A benchmark is an average collected over a wide number and variety of businesses - everything (in this case) from a high speed bonnet cleaning only building service contractor to a meticulous hot water extraction high end residential carpet cleaning company. It is never meant to be a critique of your way of doing things or to tell you you charge too little or too much.

One final comment - keep in mind - in the commercial Class A world of carpet cleaning - there are companies who figure out how to be very very fast, and still be good. Just down the road from me is a company who does $6 million a year in commercial carpet cleaning only. They employ encap, portables, bonnet, and truckmounts. They turn down residential work - don't want it as they say it "isn't profitable enough and the clients are too picky". They likely do not charge near what you would charge for cleaning the carpet in a bank. Their margins though are quite healthy. That is the beautiful thing about this business - you can do it your way and find enough customers to build a successful business.

Hope that helps - and if you still hate the numbers - get busy on a thread and develop some of your own. I will help publish them and spread them around.

I'll wait until I can sit down in the bathroom to read all this.
 

Desk Jockey

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I can throughly clean 10k an hour with a tag along, 15k hour with a portable and with one of them there 100k PTO's 50k an hour. I just start it up and it scares the dirt right out of the carpet. I just vacuum it up behind it.

20k an hour with 2 CRB'S hooked together (saw that in an ad) 5k an hour with a Cimex and my running shoes on.

That should help in estimating. There might be some slight exaggeration but pretty close to accurate. :shifty:
 

Papa John

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This benchmark caused prices to crash in our industry when it was used by salesmen bidding, while sitting behind a desk, and usually hiring Parolees to do the work.
It was a great disservice to the customer and our industry.
 
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Nomad74

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I recently cleaned 20 classrooms for a school. I thought it would be a great candidate for encap. Man, was I wrong. The problem is if encap is done correctly, it isn't faster than a truckmount. My process is to prevac, encap with a scrubbing pad soaking wet, then post Scrub with superzorbs. These rooms were taking me 1:15 to clean. I wasted my entire day with that method. The next day I used the truckmount. Turned out I was in and out of each room in 30 minutes.

That's why I say the encap numbers are way way way off. But most hacks just spray and run. I get it. But it isn't the correct way. If a company was using the numbers provided in the original post, I would think they are encouraging crappy work.

Encap does have its place. Like when parking and water aren't available. But for the most part my better production numbers are with HWE.
 
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Jimmy L

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I agree with encap SHAMPOOING as it does take just as long as using hwe. It's that crucial prevac step that removes 75% of the soil load that most don't do. And in my opinion is really the only cleaning actually done. The rest is just smearing and rearranging the dirt to give a uniform appearance.
 

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