Film-formers vs. crystallizing polymers

Discussion in 'the CleAn Room' started by Goomer, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Goomer
    Goomer

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    Differences?
  2. Mikey P
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    This should be good
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  3. Cleanworks
    Cleanworks

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    Jimmy always wanted to be a film star.
  4. Goomer
    Goomer

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  5. GeeeAus
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    I would like to really know too.

    Fooking good question. Lets have it encap formulators....
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  6. Desk Jockey
    Desk Jockey

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that the film former makes the fiber slicker so soil can not stick to it.

    The crystallizer works basically the same but once dried it fractures off.

    The soil removal step for both comes POST appearance improvement and is not a one time vacuum but continues over time.
  7. Jimmy L
    Jimmy L

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    Take some pipe cleaners and dip them in both a RTU and a full strength solution. Drape them over something and allow to dry. Then place them over a BLACK piece of construction paper. And then brush them onto the paper and SEE what if any polymer flakes onto the black paper. The film formers will coat and be reluctant to chip off. Up to you to decide if that is good or.......................BAD

    Steer clear of white or yellow crystals. The CLEAR ones will reflect light on the carpet and make it sparkle!
  8. GeeeAus
    GeeeAus

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    You actually say some really clever and insightful things when you feel like it I wish you spoke up more like this.

    :rockon:
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  9. Jimmy L
    Jimmy L

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    Well I guess I am sort of an enigma. My close circle of friends include Stephen Hawkings, Gary Busey, Madea and the lovely Taylor Sands. We often go into deep discussions about these type of things. And to tell the truth talking about such simple things like this is rather primitive : )
  10. Tom Forsythe
    Tom Forsythe

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    Practically, I am not sure a cleaner would ever know which he was using without taking some extra steps. A formula has cleaning ingredients like surfactants, possibly some solvency, and and possibly some builder. The second type of ingredients are polymers. The amount of the polymer in the formula is much more important than the nature of the polymer. The difference of the polymer effects its release from the carpet. In our main product we have different polymers, some will release more readily (described as crystals) and others will release more slowly (described as film formers). I added a surfactant to a film forming polymer formula which resulted in a crystalline residue. This makes believe that there are only slight differences between these type of formulas. These features determine the degree to which a carpet reacts to new soil and also removal of soil broken off the fiber in the cleaning process. When the soil does not bond as readily to the fiber due to the presence of polymer, then the carpet stays clean longer. Some have said that it forms a plastic coating. Plastic is not water soluble like polymers so this is a misnomer. In essence you have polymers with different release characteristics. Fluorochemical is a step beyond polymers as they bond more strongly to fibers than polymers. All are removed by foot traffic, brush agitation with some vaccuums and by cleaning. Fluorochemicals are more durable to cleaning than encapsulation polymers. If you are concerned about film formers staying on carpets, then you should really be concerned about fluorochemicals. One thing that I have found in the practice of encapsulation is that extraction is not done as often as it should be done. If you do not regularly extract a carpet which is not properly vacuumed on a regular basis then you can see a build up of polymers of all different types.
  11. Mikey P
    Mikey P

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    I bet Tom could give Gary Busey a run for his money in Jimmy's think tank hot tub get togethers
  12. Old Coastie
    Old Coastie

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    Yeah.... I'd suggest a paint filter AND a reverse osmosis filter on that hot tub.

    On a serious note, It is absolutely true that extraction needs to be done periodically, since the facility staff will never vacuum well. Never.
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  13. Larry Cobb
    Larry Cobb

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    In Dallas, we were part of the 1st testing done by DuPont ResisTech for their commercial carpet maintenance division.

    They developed a film-former product, and started using it in their commercial cleaning program.

    They did not tell the customers that they were implementing "encapsulation".

    It was typically used in office environments where the carpet was vacuumed every day.

    Within the 1st month, several customers noticed that the carpet was staying cleaner & brighter.

    When Dupont was sold, many of the "encap" chemists left and started new divisions utilizing this technology.

    We utilized one who was convinced the "film-former" polymers prevented soil from attaching to the carpet fibers.

    This was the start of our "encap" product line (Rick was an initial customer).

    Later we added a stain-resist component to resist coffee & soft drink staining.

    As Tom mentioned, we think that film-formers + fluorochemicals provide the best soil-release properties. They also restore some luster back to the fiber.

    This is utilized in our current Encapsulate SR line .
    http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index...0cdb76ad8725ba6a443d1b34fc99&keyword=encap SR
  14. Larry Cobb
    Larry Cobb

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    A previous photo of our powder Encap product tested to the specs of a CleanFax article on residue from Encaps:
    17254-4a939cb34c927868c579e2db3fca036d[1].jpg
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  15. Jimmy L
    Jimmy L

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    You know over the years "Experts" have come and go. Formulators of products I don't trust because they are out to SELL. They can make up any kind of BS just because they have that "Title". Doesn't mean their stuff is any good.

    I'm part of the real world of carpet cleaning. I ain't NO shill and I know what I like. Has Tom corrected that O2 so it doesn't rot on the shelf? Film formers make no sense to me regardless of what the "Experts" think.


    There it is...............WHITE residue..............
    Lets see who makes that YELLOW residue...guess who?
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  16. encapman
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    The answer to the question is simple... Do an A-B test on the carpet. Clean a busy section of carpet. Clean one side with Product-A, and the the other side with Product-B.

    Here are a few things to look for:
    1. Obviously - How quick/easy was it to clean each section?
    2. How did it look immediately after it was cleaned?
    3. How did it look after vacuuming the following day or so?
    4. How did it look a few days after cleaning?
    5. Which side remained clean the longest?
    Our encapsulation products contain a lot of polymer. It's not easy to get that dialed in precisely. We went through a lot of "trial and error" before we were satisfied. Getting a good balance between cleaning efficacy and encapsulation polymerization is a challenge! The formulas we arrived at contain a precise balance of polymer.

    There are currently quite a few polymers in the industry that could be used in an encapsulation formulation. We got pretty fussy about the ones we chose for our products. I think that's a big reason why our products perform the way they do. Our polymers draw oily soil into the polymer. Our polymer fractures easily so that the encapsulated soil can be extracted during the post-vacuuming process. And our polymer also resists re-soiling.

    We also include a fluoro-chemical in a a few of our staple products. Lowering the surface tension helps the detergent to do its job. It aids the soil release/recovery process during post-vacuuming. And it adds a measure of soil-resistance. Combining fluoro-chemistry with a well-balanced polymer package, along with good cleaning components has served our product line well!

    Like I said though - test it yourself. Compare whatever products you'd like side-by-side on the carpet. The results should tell you everything you need to know. If you'd like to test Releasit you can head over to www.tryencap.com to order some free samples.

    Here's a brief explanation about our encapsulation polymer that we printed a couple of years ago...

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  17. Lee Stockwell
    Lee Stockwell

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    Floor finish
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  18. encapman
    encapman

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    LOL - I don't think so.
  19. Jimmy L
    Jimmy L

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    " RADICAL ENCAPSULATION EXTREMISM" A holy man here and one over "There" with one who transients back and forth to suit him. And there is one who resides in his garage making " Yellow" crystals. All use cereal box marketing !

    These "Radicals" hover on the internet capturing idiotic souls to follow them all the while preaching perverted ideas from the good book of "Scampoo".

    Some too far gone even scampooing their garage floors to compare the juices.

    WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS BASTARDIZATION OF ETHICAL SHAMPOOERS EVERYWHERE?

    ALL ON THE INTERNET THEY PREY ON THE WEAK . PREACHING THEIR RADICAL ENCAPSULATION RELIGION!

    HELP US BABY JESUS!
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  20. Desk Jockey
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    uhh huh youuu got it!
    lol

    There is no help for you! :winky:

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