GPM versus PSI in Cleaning Applications

[jcooper]

Steve!

Remember when you got the new tm and were like... Should have done that a long time ago.

The glide is kinda the same thing. It will make things easier for you.

 

[Larry Cobb]

If You up the jet size heat exchange machines won't maintain temp. My experience is best TnG cleaning results are achieved by using rocking chems, mechanical agitation and high temperature rinse.

If those three criteria have been properly satisfied then psi and flow are subordinate.

I suggest hi temp will out perform flow and psi consistently.

With Heat Exchangers & Heaters . . .

the quantity of heat BTU's transferred to the water is increased by

flowing more water thru the heating device.

Temp may drop, but the total amount of heat transfered to the carpet is increased.

 

[Cleanworks]

Just lift the wand higher to adjust spray pattern.

That tears my rotator cuff. I probably could cut a foot off that wand.

 

[Cleanworks]

Steve!

Remember when you got the new tm and were like... Should have done that a long time ago.

The glide is kinda the same thing. It will make things easier for you.

Not all glides are created equal. I have a couple of glided aw29's, a 2 inch westpak and my new Mach 12 with Pmf's 2 piece glide. The Mach 12 gets a better seal and is harder to move than the others. Much better extraction, you can feel the difference. I used Tom's glided swivel wand on a commercial job (not mine) and it was a real pleasure to use, probably the best extraction of them all. Although I haven't used it, I bet the Mach 15 with a glide would be a joy to use if you need a 2 inch tube.

 

[steve_64]

That tears my rotator cuff. I probably could cut a foot off that wand.

Mine is shot now lol. But it works.

I want to try a machine 15 glided. I've priced them just to many other things going on to pull the trigger without trying it first.

 

[Cleanworks]

Mine is shot now lol. But it works.

I want to try a machine 15 glided. I've priced them just to many other things going on to pull the trigger without trying it first.

I love my Mach 12. I don't use 2 inch wands except for shag of very deep pile carpets. The small difference in drying time isn't a concern to me or my clients. If I need to speed dry anything, I bring some fans. Make sure it's the titanium version. It's much lighter than your average stainless wand. My Mach 12 is almost half the weight of an aw29 which is not a heavy wand to begin with. If the Mach 15 works as good as the Mach 12, you'll curse yourself for not getting it sooner.

 

[kmdineen]

If flow trumps pressure for rinsing, why does the Zipper SS @ 4 to 6 flow rinse better than the standard Zipper @ 12 flow?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

If flow trumps pressure for rinsing, why does the Zipper SS @ 4 to 6 flow rinse better than the standard Zipper @ 12 flow?

The spinning tips.

 

[steve_64]

The spinning tips.

Aggitation?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Aggitation?

Not quite.

Similar to the rotating buzz tip on a pressure washer wand. A zero degree tip that covers a 40 degree circle faster than the eye can see.

 

[Larry Cobb]

If flow trumps pressure for rinsing, why does the Zipper SS @ 4 to 6 flow rinse better than the standard Zipper @ 12 flow?

Which person is saying the Zipper SS @4 to 6 flow rinses better

than the #12 flow of the std. Zippper ?

Is Eric agreeing with that . . .

Impact will increase with the narrow angle jets of the SS.

 

[kmdineen]

It is my understanding the benefit of having the Zipper SS is to better rinse greasy restaurants and rat nasty jobs. I think both Chavez and Saiger posted that was their experience with the Zipper SS.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

I changed my ss zipper to 02 tips and like the results also Eric I moved the bottom handle to the front side and it's easier to move around for a old guy like me and just LOVE to zipper all day. jz.

 

[Cleanworks]

I changed my ss zipper to 02 tips and like the results also Eric I moved the bottom handle to the front side and it's easier to move around for a old guy like me and just LOVE to zipper all day. jz.

I prefer to unzipper but each to his own

 

[Goomer]

I prefer to unzipper but each to his own

This is not a stubby tool discussion.

 

[Ron Werner]

We were talking jet size and flow several years ago. It wasn't the pressure but the water droplet size. The bigger droplet has more impact and more flushing ability. That's why I switched to 03 jets on my Greenhorn. Using the 02s just didn't seem to rinse well enough. Everyone seemed to want to go to the 02 jets, most likely for the heat to keep up in hx systems.
Having the higher flow in the wand also got the heat to the carpet faster.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Larger jets also make the HX (or heater) more efficient,

by transferring more BTU's to the carpet.

 

[BIG WOOD]

BLA,BLA,BLA

Unless you're using a cheapo wand where some overseas distributor just slaps some jets on without any concern, leave the wand alone. If it's from a reputable company, they'll know what flow works best with the design of the specific tool. Just adjust your psi to the wand you've purchased, and you'll be fine.

 

[ID10t]

Will running a acid or an emusafier impact the flushing capabilities of low flow or high flow?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

BLA,BLA,BLA

Unless you're using a cheapo wand where some overseas distributor just slaps some jets on without any concern, leave the wand alone. If it's from a reputable company, they'll know what flow works best with the design of the specific tool. Just adjust your psi to the wand you've purchased, and you'll be fine.

Bad advice in many cases.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Bad advice in many cases.

Give me an example

 

[hogjowl]

Give me an example

Cheap wand from over seas distributors

He didn't read it all

 

[Lee Stockwell]

BLA,BLA,BLA

Unless you're using a cheapo wand where some overseas distributor just slaps some jets on without any concern, leave the wand alone. If it's from a reputable company, they'll know what flow works best with the design of the specific tool. Just adjust your psi to the wand you've purchased, and you'll be fine.

The jets have a simple numbering format, usually sized at minimum flow depending on several other variables including the preference of the vendor.

Don't assume "factory settings" are right for you...or anyone.

Test for yourself.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Many U.S. wand manufacturers size the jets incorrectly on their wands.

One 2-jet 12" wand from a "west coast" manufacturer had two #01 jets,
instead of the two 03 jets we would use.

Carpet would not of cleaned well with 1/3rd the amount of water.

Very little IMPACT to break the soil loose.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Many U.S. wand manufacturers size the jets incorrectly on their wands.

One 2-jet 12" wand from a "west coast" manufacturer had two #01 jets,
instead of the two 03 jets we would use.

Carpet would not of cleaned well with 1/3rd the amount of water.

Very little IMPACT to break the soil loose.

Thanks for agreeing with my statement. You don't seem like a cheap overseas distributor, so I would trust the flow you put on your wands.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Many U.S. wand manufacturers size the jets incorrectly on their wands.

One 2-jet 12" wand from a "west coast" manufacturer had two #01 jets,
instead of the two 03 jets we would use.

Carpet would not of cleaned well with 1/3rd the amount of water.

Very little IMPACT to break the soil loose.

I don't mean to grind this debate in the dirt, but I think I know which west coast manufacturer you're talking about, and the wand they're sizing as a 2flow is under the portable wand section, which is really what it should be. The wands in the truckmount wand section are at a 6flow like it should be also. So I think they're correct on why they set it up that way.

 

[Cleanworks]

I don't mean to grind this debate in the dirt, but I think I know which west coast manufacturer you're talking about, and the wand they're sizing as a 2flow is under the portable wand section, which is really what it should be. The wands in the truckmount wand section are at a 6flow like it should be also. So I think they're correct on why they set it up that way.

The only reason you see 2 or 3 flow wands, is so that the heater on the portable can keep up. On older 100 psi portables that we used to use, we usually had a 6 flow. Also, the so called 500 psi pumps you find on some of today's portables won't give even 150 psi on anything larger than a 2 flow. You need at least a 1/2 HP motor to get 500 psi at 1.5 gpm which is about a 4 flow.

 

[Larry Cobb]

This thread is about maximizing HIGH FLOW; more GPM.

We use #6 jets on our 220 PSI portable pumps up to 500 PSI Cat pump systems.

The Cat pumps have different cams for various flow rates.

Tip Chart : http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/images/TipChart.jpg

 

[Mighty Phil]

Sorry to be late to the party. But I think I disagree with what you are saying Larry.

My thoughts are that you need enough psi pressure to dislodge soiling through the kinetic energy of the droplet (assuming pre agitation has been neglected), and then redirect the rest of your pumping capacity to flow. You do this through jet selection and setting the static pressure at the unloader/regulator of the machine. Here is how cleaning power is calculated (below). Note that pressure and flow are identically matched.

Do you want to calculate the cleaning effect of a pressure washer? Simply multiply the pressure in BAR x the flow in LPM and divide by 600. So a domestic pressure cleaner at 1200 PSI or 83 BAR (divide PSI by 14.5 to get BAR) x 6 LPM /600 = 0.83 which is not great. But increasing the flow to 12 LPM, doubles the cleaning power at the same pressure!


Phil.

 

[FredC]

Pretty sure you aren't actually disagreeing with him............