How to manage dye bleed issues on Oriental Rugs

Discussion in 'Rugs and Textiles' started by T Monahan, Sep 24, 2016.

By T Monahan on Sep 24, 2016 at 1:34 AM
  1. T Monahan
    T Monahan

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    Let's get it out there, what have you been told to do about rugs that bleed color?

    More specifically, what have you been told that causes it and how you are to manage it when it occurs?

    It is obvious that some chemical manufacturers feature remedies in a bottle. I recommend that they chime in and discuss what they have to offer and why it works.

    Can we clear the air on any misinformation?

    Let's begin a thoughtful thread and hopefully arrive at sage advice and observations.

Comments

Discussion in 'Rugs and Textiles' started by T Monahan, Sep 24, 2016.

    1. Cleanworks
      Cleanworks

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      One of the things I've been told is that it bleeds because of excess dye or dyed loose fibers in the rug and if you keep rinsing with cold water, it should all rinse out.
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    2. Papa John
      Papa John

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      This topic is the Main reason I'm sending my tech to Rug Summit 10 next week. We were TAUGHT the remedy at Robert Mann's Last year... This time he will listen and participate more actively in an effort to LEARN the remedy.
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    3. Cleanworks
      Cleanworks

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      Here is an example of a runner that came into the shop recently. I don't know what happened to it, could be water damage or improper cleaning. The customer knows the rug is damaged and doesn't expect to have it corrected, just cleaned. If I could correct for a reasonable price, I am sure the customer would say go ahead. How would correct this type of dye bleed? IMG_20160924_083909.jpg IMG_20160924_083909.jpg

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    4. T Monahan
      T Monahan

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      Your specimen is fixable.

      If you could roll back the clock and had the chance to wash this rug before it looked this way, would process should be used to manage a safe and effective wash? Part of the answer to consider is what is it made of and what happened to it to get these unsatisfactory current results?

      Let's keep this thread going with examples of what is being said and what remedies in a bottle are directed by industry leaders and instructors.

      (Yes, naturally we will be discussing these matters at Rug Summit in demos and in private networking opportunities)
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    5. Larry Cobb
      Larry Cobb

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      Tom;
      I am proposing a shift from old school Sodium Hydrosulfite to our ReduceAll powder.

      Besides being more effective, it doesn't yellow the wool, which saves an extra step.

      We got some good feedback from several rug cleaners at the Experience show.

      DyeBleeding.jpg
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      Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
    6. cleanking
      cleanking

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      @Larry Cobb Is this the same as the Stripper Powder you sell, or something new?
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    7. T Monahan
      T Monahan

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    8. Larry Cobb
      Larry Cobb

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      We sell both the Sodium Hydrosulfite stripper (like Streepene, etc)

      and

      the new ReduceAll.

      The ReduceAll also has high potential to remove urine staining

      from damaged rugs in the wash cycle or tub.
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      Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
    9. T Monahan
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    10. rmann
      rmann

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      Larry Cobb, I recently tested your dye removal powder and was pleased with the initial results. I'm planning on experimenting with it more. Regarding sodium hydrosulfite and yellowing, I have to say that I have been using a lot of hydro, for a long time, and find that, with proper formulation and application, good results can be had with no 'yellowing' issues.

      Regarding Tom Monahan's question posed to chemical salesmen, I too would like to hear more discussion about the range of products being offered that are said to 'stabilize' dyes, rinse or remove excess dye from rugs, and remove dyes that have bled.

      Following the internet chat sites you hear a lot of 'rah-rah' boosterism promoting one 'secret' formation or another, though many of these products are likely based on the same small group of active ingredients - most of which can be bought 'generically', and in bulk.

      Given the desire to maintain proprietary control over product formulation data, and thus protect that product in the market, the folks who sell this stuff don't seem inclined to talk about how any of it actually works. Or how well it works, except to say it is great. I get it; they are in business.

      The problem is that the rug cleaning industry is small and has no open peer reviewed developmental forum for it's technology. There is no textbook. There are no real standards. There is little access to peer reviewed hard data.

      And so, in the absence of such, 'experts' present preposterous examples of voo-doo science to prove that what they say is true, often inciting partisan bickering and factionalism. It is not how you move an industry forward.
    11. T Monahan
      T Monahan

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      Mr. Mann, Centrum Force wants to distance themselves from "voo-doo science" and we are transparent about all our products. It is better to discuss how it works so expectations do not exceed reality.

      Let me personally go on record about a product Centrum Force promotes for their Wash Tub users, namely Secret Sauce. It is an additive to be introduced into the contained water vessel of the Wash Tub. It is not meant to be splashed on rugs on the floor and rinsed down the drain.

      Secret Sauce was initially intended to be used in our Wash Tub application for dye management when rugs release dyes during the washing process. We did not sell to the public for years, but rather we confined sales only to Wash Tub clients only. The many Wash Tub users have appreciated that unique circumstance for nearly 10 years now. We never said, nor believe, that it locks dyes on the textile.

      Using it in a 1200 gallon paddle wheel wash tub necessitates that it must be used as directed to realize its full objective. The objective is managing and preventing the staining of direct dyes or reactive dyes or re-deposit loose dyes during the wash. This additive especially has value when multiple textile pieces are being washed together as often is the case with Centrum Force Wash Tub users. Think of it as a binder or suspending agent to capture loose dyes.

      The key to Secret Sauce is this fact: It has elements of a water-soluble polymer.
      Note: It is nonionic and has a ph of 7 undiluted. It has been tested by WoolSafe. It has received the WoolSafe seal of approval.

      Of further note: Conventional cleaning agents, detergents and wetting agents do not affect its desired performance. That is why we use our proprietary product known as Knock-Out as our preferred cleaning agent with it. Knock-Out is a plant based Colloidal Micelle cleaning product formulated to wash rugs specifically as we suggest. (Incidentally, it makes a wonderful, non scented laundry cleaner for use on clothes in your washing machine at home. It only requires about ½ oz of concentrate for each wash load provided you are using the newer type of water efficient washing machine)

      Secret Sauce and Knock-out, as well as U-Turn are all WoolSafe Approved.

      13239480_1046114865470795_7682107301120634967_n.jpg
    12. cleanking
      cleanking

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      @T Monahan is secret sauce available to non wash tub owners at this point?

      Has there been any use of it on the wash floor in any capacity?
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    13. Mrice
      Mrice

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      "Rugs" is an all encompassing term. There are tufted tugs from pottery barn, heirloom needlepoint rugs, custom stark carpeting, wool rugs, viscose...then there is a whole other class of expensive rugs that someone got handed down/second hand, that are likely in crappy shape and they don't/(won't) have the money to maintain properly. So how does one care for all of these? For me they fall into two categories. #1. clean on site...noe really dirty or not really highly valued, or not great expectations...these I clean onsite with a crazy amount of vacuuming light detergent/pre-conditioning, light on the water, speed dried with fans. Sometimes, encapped if they look sketchy. Sometimes people just won't/can't pay to have a proper offsite cleaning. #2 those I do...a preliminary bleed test with the same solution I am cleaning with, lets say it's Ultra TLC from Pros choice. Generally, I spray some on a clean white towel then place it on the rug and stand on it for 5 minutes or so (I realize this is not a fail safe test, it might still bleed, but it's not likely). If it's a bleeder it gets a heavy dose of CSS, (though I hear Acetic (sp) acid or vinegar would be much cheaper, but there's no tech support for them :-)). Then it's cleaned and rinsed with Natural Fiber Cleaner. It gets a complete vacuum early on as well. #3 those that scare me or if I'm pressed time-wise, I take to a trusted local rug shop.

      All that said...I know one longstanding rug shop that uses formula 90 on nearly everything will good results, go figure!
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    14. cleanking
      cleanking

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      Isn't Formula 90 WoolSafe?

      So @Mrice , are the rugs you don't clean on-site getting HWE as well?
    15. Mrice
      Mrice

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      Yes 90 is woolsafe.

      Offsite, rugs are pitwashed or HWE, depending on condition.
    16. T Monahan
      T Monahan

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      Mrice,

      You said, " If it's a bleeder it gets a heavy dose of CSS"

      Why? What does it do for you in this circumstance you describe with the method of cleaning you described in your remarks?

      Thanks in advance.
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    17. Mrice
      Mrice

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      CSS is pros choice color agent to stabilize dyes to prevent color bleed in textiles and control browning. As you know there are so many different situations, if it looks like it's going to be a bleeder I take it away and clean it. I have used the CSS in home when there were indications of bleeding but it is much harder to clean it offsite, ie. huge dining room table or no funds to take away cleaning. It works on furniture too.
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    18. T Monahan
      T Monahan

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      In connection with the point of why I started this thread, permit me to ask you the following:

      What does "stabilize dyes to prevent color bleed in textiles" mean to you?

      Is this giving you a predicable expectation as a result?
    19. Mrice
      Mrice

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      Tom, it does and that coupled with the ability to call and talk to an extremely knowledgeable rep at the manufacture if there is an outlying situation, means I've eliminated some risk.
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