IICRC - how about this for a new name/logo?

Desk Jockey

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with a name like clean trust, it seems like they are targeting cleaners instead of restorers. thats troubling to me.
Strange that they didn't use a broader name that encompassed more????

Ken I totally agree, they could have just changed the meaning of the "I"..........to Idiots! :twisted:

OK to "Installation" , that would have made so much more sense! 8)
 

Ken Snow

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That is an even better idea Richard- no change to any materials at all.

Institute for Installation, Cleaning, Restoration & Certification

or

Institute for Idiots, Curmudgeons, Retards & Crackheads
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Doc Holliday said:
It think it's all funny, but then we don't use them as a reference like you do Steve although that's a great use!

We've never promoted the IICRC much. We attend lots of training some through the IICRC, some the RIA and IAQA and other non certified classes. We mention it on the website, their numbers are on their business cards but it's not on the trucks and we don't wear patches.

It's ironic they try to surprise the industry with a "New Improved Name & Logo" and it's received as well as flaming dog sh*t on your porch! :lol:

I HATE the name and logo, I think I will get used to the name but that logo looks like one picked off of IStock. Who's kid got paid a couple of million to come up with this stuff?

Many years ago I held the IICRC in high esteem but in the last decade those that I once thought honorable were proven to be much less than that. In recent years it gotten worse with back door deals covered by feelings of entitlement. Fortunately shift of power that I never thought I'd live to see has taken place. Most of those that built the crooked ship have been given the boot and a new day is on the horizon.

I find myself in a very strange position of defending the Clean Trust/IICRC who just a year ago I was attacking for not taking a stronger stance against the SOA.

I don't really care what their name is.

We're still going to send the guys to class, we're still going to have them take the test (to keep them awake and learning) and we're still not going to wear the patches.

I truly hope that in future years I'm once again able to hold them in high esteem.

I think your story is like others because you are geared to "do the best" in your market, and when you see an organization that is far from "best" you feel awkward promoting and telling the world about them.

The name is just one piece here - of that refusal to even have a dialogue with their own customers. SOA should have been their opportunity to man up and take a stand... and now it's a woman (Debbie Lema) who is taking the fight to CRI in a few weeks. I mean, how much balls does it take for the old EC to say, hey, you can test this way it's not real dirt or real world scenarios?

They think a new name means "change" - but what they really need to change is how they train. The courses are mediocre in most cases, unless you get a great instructor who can make some magic in between the mediocre. Jim and I wrote about what was broken, and even laid out how to fix it, and then when some of them yelled at me and said "if you think you can do better, go do it, see how easy it is then!" And a year later... we did.

And at the typical IICRC pace, they will get a new system out in another decade. =)

My hope is the new Board will show some change, and at least respect the feedback and complaints given, and not brush them aside. There needs to be some kind of sign that they hear it, and will address it. And perhaps come up with a compromise.

But if they let Tom Hill be their spokeshole, and they report that the name is loved by all and is the best thing since sliced bread, then I will give up my last small hope on IICRC. And I will support any effort from any direction to put them out of business, because any company who does not respect and value their own customers deserves to go out of business.

I guess the date to watch for is the end of January, that's when the Exec Committee - the new one - meets. I will be sending them every single comment that's been posted and sent to me. There's a lot of them.

I still like your logo Chavez. =)

Lisa
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Ken Snow said:
That is an even better idea Richard- no change to any materials at all.

Institute for Installation, Cleaning, Restoration & Certification

or

Institute for Idiots, Curmudgeons, Retards & Crackheads


So I'm gathering from this ... that... you just don't really give a shit about this.

Am I reading that right Rug Stud?

=)

Lisa
 

Shane Deubell

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Whats your angle?

and dont tell me the betterment of the industry

Just straight out say it
 

gary mackay

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Who cares, why get all butt hurt over the IICRC?

I've been asked once if I was a card carrier, said no & explained it then got the job anyway.

If you need to be led & educated by someone then become someone's employee!
 

Ron Werner

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I don't fault them on the teachings, its not the IICRC doing the teaching but in most cases its very knowledgeable people that actually do the work. Though the instructors teach us to past the test, there is very good teaching happening.

Restorers need a standard to follow more than cleaners, they have a lot more liability and pleasing adjustors is a lot harder than pleasing a customer.
 

PCCN

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rhyde said:
I gave up caring about IICRC long ago the value in training they provide is limited and provides little or no value to established businesses and are totally irrelevant in the real world Just ask the person that pays your check; your next customer what they think about the IICRC.


If your customers are like mine, they have no idea whatsoever what the IICRC is or does. It doesn't matter to my customers at all about this group. IICRC has yet to provide me with a single dollar of business in any manner and like it or not, this is the reason we become affiliated with any business group; to get referrals or grow our business.
 

Ken Snow

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Ken Snow said:
That is an even better idea Richard- no change to any materials at all.

Institute for Installation, Cleaning, Restoration & Certification

or

Institute for Idiots, Curmudgeons, Retards & Crackheads


So I'm gathering from this ... that... you just don't really give a shit about this.

Am I reading that right Rug Stud?

=)

Lisa

It is not so much not giving a shit Rug Babe, more that the org had become irrelevant to our business (or maybe always was). We have had probably 10 total people certified (in various areas) over the years, out of hundreds and for a few years were even a certified firm. We finally came to the conclusion it was not really adding value to our brand. The teaching in many cases was mediocre and as you said the courses poorly designed. Our employees too often came back and said that was a waster of our money (we paid for everything plus wages).

Ken
 

Ron Werner

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If anyone has marketed the fact that they are certified as an IICRC technician, chances are that could have been one factor in the customer hiring you, whether the customer made a note of it or not. It's one check mark for credibility even if the customer hasn't a clue what its about.
Just saying you've taken a class will separate you from a lot of companies and you have more confidence doing what you're doing because of the classes you took.
And you've probably made money from that.
 

Bob Foster

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We have to keep in mind that the new board, the reformers, have not yet sat in their own board meeting. Tony made a comment on ICS last night that said something to the effect that they acknowledge peoples concerns, they have only been a new group for about two weeks , and their first board meeting is in January.

After reading Tony's comments I believe many of you might come to the same conclusion that I have that things are looking very positive. Especially referring to the remarks about the national association.

Look closely at the first class team of people that have come together. With the combination of their abilities and their individual well known good character its evident that they don't deserve to be characterized negatively.
 

harryhides

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PCCN said:
rhyde said:
I gave up caring about IICRC long ago the value in training they provide is limited and provides little or no value to established businesses and are totally irrelevant in the real world Just ask the person that pays your check; your next customer what they think about the IICRC.


If your customers are like mine, they have no idea whatsoever what the IICRC is or does. It doesn't matter to my customers at all about this group. IICRC has yet to provide me with a single dollar of business in any manner and like it or not, this is the reason we become affiliated with any business group; to get referrals or grow our business.

Point taken David, the iicrc is a Certifying body and a Standards developer, it should never have been turned into any kind of a referral service. That is the job of an Association, something that is now in the works. Once that has been accomplished the Institute will really not need a Marketing budget or a referral service and at that point it's name will have a much lower profile. I expect that the Association will be doing more of the Marketing about our Industry and providing member benefits just like any other Trade Associations.

Ken Snow's Company does the marketing for themselves - they don't expect anyone else to do it for them.
What needs to be worked on is training and Certifications that are of a much higher quality with progressively more advanced Courses also. That is the only way their value will increase to both the member Companies, their staff along with the consumers they serve.
That is what Jim and Lisa have done along with a few others Instructors and Schools.

The market will decide, as it should, just which Courses and Instructors to choose.
For example one superior class that Hagopian has kept returning to is SFS, there must be a reason why - it's called "value".

Part of creating better Courses is by creating better Standards upon which to base them along with better trained Instructors. All of this will take time, input from you the "market" and support.
 

dealtimeman

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Shane Deubell said:
Whats your angle?

and dont tell me the betterment of the industry

Just straight out say it

This is not directed at Shane obviously.


Surely, as someone that is truly bothered with the new name and bad decisions, has an idea to pitch?

Would you rather have A for profit company as the governing or certification body?


The next thing we hear is that there is a new certification body ( !gotcha! or an existing one maybe?)that we should all be getting our education and standards from.

It just seems like a lot of energy being used to tear down an institution, and the big question is what to replace it with.

Is there no fixing the current string of bad decisions and just fix the root of the problem instead of everyone buying into some new "problematic certification body".

My three cents...
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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I've had enough feedback from several board members to sense that they are not thrilled with the name, but may be "stuck" with it, but will not be ignoring the comments at their next meeting.

My "angle" was that a decision that impacts every customer of IICRC should at least "pretend" to care about whether or not those customers see a need, or see the value of a change like this. That is fundamentally bad business.

Like Ken my business gets no benefit at all from IICRC - but I stayed involved to support the initial mission mostly because of my strong support of CFI, and they are one of the shareholder associations of IICRC. CFI has always been valuable to my business, and to me personally - great professional relationships I've made there, and great friendships. IICRC though has always been a battle with bureaucracy, and people trying to get line items to fund their contracts and projects.

The direction of IICRC at this point will be one of two decisions, either a top-down philosophy, or a bottom-up one. They are either going to get cozy with government affairs and regulatory groups and force cleaners to get "certified" - or they are going to repair their relationship/connection with the professionals in the field, and craft the programs based on real world application and performance - and get the industry to choose to get certified.

When they first came out with asbestos training, contractors had to get "certified" annually. Every single year, pay to take the exact same test, over and over. It was a diploma mill, and a cash cow.

I just hope that's not the model we are heading in. I'd hate to see the level of training and standards get dumbed down and more boring than it is right now in most cases.

Looking forward to the January EC meeting. Thanks Tony for the ICS post and details. You can let the rest of the board know I'm calling a truce while I collect more feedback forms. I know Tom Hill seems to think that I am the only one who is unhappy with this, but I hope a few on the board can see that it's not just the name change, it's the fact that the past board had no regard or respect toward their customers and once that piece changes even a little bit, it will make a world of difference. At least in my opinion, which may not be worth a whole lot.

I hope a compromise comes out of the Jan meeting. At the very least a survey of your best customers (longest certified Master Cleaners and Restorers) to make sure you have not alienated your past strongest supporters financially and publicly.

Lisa
 

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