Brian H
Member
We have a customer that claims we overwet their carpet and this was the result. These pictures were taken 4 days after the cleaning. I won't say anything more, I just want your opinion on whether this could happen in 4 days?
In 4 days?
- Thread starter Brian H
- Start date
Shane T
Member
Seems odd that the tackless in the doorway doesn't seem to be stained or rusted.
Bob Pruitt
Member
No way. The tack strip next to the wall has been rusting for awhile...sharp points have disintegrated.
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Mikey P
Administrator
How much experience did that tech have?
I've always heard if carpet is wet for over three days mold can happen. The thing that looks off to me is there is no rust on the tac strip or carpet backing, and the wood does not show any signs of rot. That is quite a bit of mold for 4 days, but in a humid climate, I guess it could happen. Man, this is a tough one for you. Was that the only spot with mold? If so localize it and treat it, then get some air movers down and dry that puppy out. If not localized, then you're dealing with the spreading the spores. Ugh, Good luck!
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I just looked at the Detroit weather history. This past week you had humidity levels ranging from 25% TO 62%. So it really doesn't look like a weather issue. What was the cleaning process? What PSI? Dry strokes?
How did the customer know what was going on under that carpet? Any reason for that area to have become wet for any reason in the past besides carpet cleaning? What is true condition of tack strip? Can't really tell.
Seems like a lot in 4 days. But I'm not a mold expert.
Seems like a lot in 4 days. But I'm not a mold expert.
steve_64
Member
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- Aug 11, 2012
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Spray sporicidin on and apologize.
Yes it could be from the cleaning or they sit something on that spit after cleaning.
Yes it could be from the cleaning or they sit something on that spit after cleaning.
J
JS41035
Guest
What was the moisture content of the subfloor when you got there ? I'm almost certain that was pre existing. If by chance he did some subsurface spotting in that exact spot...maybe. But I would look at the closet or rooms nearby. Is a water heater close? Is the tack strip in similar condition in the entire room? If it all looks like it got soaked, then it definitely wasn't from the cleaning. Without any drying equipment, the amount of water it would take to soak carpet padding and tack strip would not be totally dry 4 days later. If if is totally dry when you showed up I'd guess it was a prexisting flood that wasn't handled properly. Definitely wouldn't treat it with anything. It all needs to come out. But not necessarily on your dime.
FredC
Village Idiot
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Yes. Mold can become visible that fast.
Right in the threshold where it would be the dirtiest and likely overworked.
Doesn't seem to extend beyond that.
Right in the threshold where it would be the dirtiest and likely overworked.
Doesn't seem to extend beyond that.
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Cleanworks
Moderator
If it's only in one localized spot, it's possible that the tech put the wand and it was leaking creating a puddle in that area. I've had that happen to me minus the mold. I now have the habit of turning off my shut off valve if I have to put the wand for any reason. I would check that area with a moisture meter to see if there is a leak somewhere. Possible someone spilled a pail of water while washing walls or something.
steve_64
Member
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They probably put a rug back down before it was completely dry. But it was probably already trapping moisture before the cleaning.
Could be an old pee spot too.
Could be an old pee spot too.
Nate The Great
Member
First thoughts is was there any planters in the house? People like to water them but forget that water likes to find the least course of resistance and it leaks from there...
Possible the Tech over wet it... I've seen on new carpet installation were the dirt with through the carpet and pad to the floor looking like mold in your picture... Crazy how far the dirt can travel..
I'd also do as @Justin Stockwell said and check for WD.. Check for any swellings of the wall or base boards.. I remember a flood job we did that had a pin hole leak in the faucet unrelated to where the water came from, vacant unit for sale.. We dried it out only to have us come back and re-dry a section.. You couldn't see the water seeping, they had to cut the drywall in order to see it..
That's one thing I learned in this business, any things possible...
Possible the Tech over wet it... I've seen on new carpet installation were the dirt with through the carpet and pad to the floor looking like mold in your picture... Crazy how far the dirt can travel..
I'd also do as @Justin Stockwell said and check for WD.. Check for any swellings of the wall or base boards.. I remember a flood job we did that had a pin hole leak in the faucet unrelated to where the water came from, vacant unit for sale.. We dried it out only to have us come back and re-dry a section.. You couldn't see the water seeping, they had to cut the drywall in order to see it..
That's one thing I learned in this business, any things possible...
J Scott W
Member
Pre-existing condition. There was moisture on that tack strip previously.
It is possible that moisture from carpet cleaning exacerbated the pre-existing condition, but that did not start from carpet cleaning 4 days ago.
The rot in the wood, the amount of rust on the nails in the tack strip, those took a while to develop.
It is possible that moisture from carpet cleaning exacerbated the pre-existing condition, but that did not start from carpet cleaning 4 days ago.
The rot in the wood, the amount of rust on the nails in the tack strip, those took a while to develop.
Brian H
Member
To answer a lot of questions:
We did the cleaning in June of 2015 and are just now being sued for the damages. The pictures are of separate bedrooms. The carpet was installed on a concrete slab. Although we still consider him a newer employee, the guy who did the cleaning has been with us since 2004. He even went back 3 days after the initial cleaning because the customer alleged that it was still wet. The cleaner did not feel it was wet but dry stroked both rooms again just to appease the customer. I went out 4 days after the cleaning and found the mold, took the pictures and explained to the customer that we couldn't have been responsible for the damage since it was apparent that it was a pre-existing condition. I have been in this industry for 35 years and I can tell you there is NO way that amount of mold happened in 4 days, especially not from a carpet cleaning.
The picture showing the rusted tackless was just below a casement style window that needs to be pushed from outside to get it to fully close. That was the only area of the carpet that exhibited anything even close to that.
The second picture was a spare bedroom being used as an office. What you see is the entrance to the bedroom off a wood floor hallway.
Oh and they had a very, very old golden retriever who had to wear a diaper because he "leaked" and the dog was so feeble that they had a harness with a handle on it so they could help him stand and walk. The dog spent most of it's day laying on the carpet in the office.
Once we discovered the mold we relaid the carpet, closed the doors to the bedrooms and installed a dehumidifier in the hallway so as not to distribute the mold spores.
When we picked up the equipment, the owner admitted that it was probably the urine that created the "wet" feel. He knew the dog was the issue and was waiting for him to pass because he couldn't bring himself to having the dog put down.
We did the cleaning in June of 2015 and are just now being sued for the damages. The pictures are of separate bedrooms. The carpet was installed on a concrete slab. Although we still consider him a newer employee, the guy who did the cleaning has been with us since 2004. He even went back 3 days after the initial cleaning because the customer alleged that it was still wet. The cleaner did not feel it was wet but dry stroked both rooms again just to appease the customer. I went out 4 days after the cleaning and found the mold, took the pictures and explained to the customer that we couldn't have been responsible for the damage since it was apparent that it was a pre-existing condition. I have been in this industry for 35 years and I can tell you there is NO way that amount of mold happened in 4 days, especially not from a carpet cleaning.
The picture showing the rusted tackless was just below a casement style window that needs to be pushed from outside to get it to fully close. That was the only area of the carpet that exhibited anything even close to that.
The second picture was a spare bedroom being used as an office. What you see is the entrance to the bedroom off a wood floor hallway.
Oh and they had a very, very old golden retriever who had to wear a diaper because he "leaked" and the dog was so feeble that they had a harness with a handle on it so they could help him stand and walk. The dog spent most of it's day laying on the carpet in the office.
Once we discovered the mold we relaid the carpet, closed the doors to the bedrooms and installed a dehumidifier in the hallway so as not to distribute the mold spores.
When we picked up the equipment, the owner admitted that it was probably the urine that created the "wet" feel. He knew the dog was the issue and was waiting for him to pass because he couldn't bring himself to having the dog put down.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Get used to this, our new 21st century reality.
Desk Jockey
Member
I thought I'd heard this story before. Some people just look for targets! 
Spurlington
Member
I see rusty tacks .. concrete slab doent help for drying .. bring a bottle of dog piss and spray it on the backing and pad .. then hire an inspector to write a report including a statement of finding urine crystals in between.
Old Coastie
Supportive Member
I suppose kerosene and the phrase "sleep with the fishes" mean nothing to this guy?
Zee
Supportive Member
I apologize but I didn't read the comments..
My initial feel is that it is possible that they had spilled something like milk or some sort of coffee drink that had milk in it. That could be why it was moldy already and it wasn't from the cleaning.
Now I'm going to read the comments to see what you smart people said.
My initial feel is that it is possible that they had spilled something like milk or some sort of coffee drink that had milk in it. That could be why it was moldy already and it wasn't from the cleaning.
Now I'm going to read the comments to see what you smart people said.
tres davis
Member
Zero chance in 4 days. Looks like you got all your bases covered though. Very interested to see the results
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I would have to agree that it was pre-existing moisture/food for growth and and the initial cleaning was possibly a call to "correct" those areas in the first place.
It will be hard for the. To pin it on you because if they did not disclose the hidden damage/ moisture/ situation that was there that "they thought" you should have been able to correct, then the liability lies with them as it was not discussed and therefore you are not negligent aside from making a return trip to " address and dry the area again".
Last year I was turning into my house and a guy that was texting looked up realized I was waiting for the gate to open,try to swerve around me, side swiped my truck- jumped the curb and hit my mail box.
He sued me for damages to his truck. fought it and won. Most are just trying to see if you will pay. His insurance payed for everything except the mail box and we will get that paid soon.
It will be hard for the. To pin it on you because if they did not disclose the hidden damage/ moisture/ situation that was there that "they thought" you should have been able to correct, then the liability lies with them as it was not discussed and therefore you are not negligent aside from making a return trip to " address and dry the area again".
Last year I was turning into my house and a guy that was texting looked up realized I was waiting for the gate to open,try to swerve around me, side swiped my truck- jumped the curb and hit my mail box.
He sued me for damages to his truck. fought it and won. Most are just trying to see if you will pay. His insurance payed for everything except the mail box and we will get that paid soon.
steve_64
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 13,371
It's hard to find people who take responsibility for themselves.
Keep us posted Brian. There's a good lesson for us here.
Keep us posted Brian. There's a good lesson for us here.
