Just for Mardie and you other VLM only goobers.

[Zee]

This is just endless with this mardie character..waste of time to even click on threads where his name pops up. Fook it...i can save a bunch of time not reading his mindless arguements over and over... Yes I just came from a job I did...padcapping.

 

[Mardie]

Richard I do not lie. The article I read on the CRI web site 5 years ago about carpet cleaning and air quality said the same thing as Shaws article but without the HWE hype. It was more indepth though. I found it intriguing.

 

[ruff]

You sir are amazing!

It was released 10-days ago but old news to you. You either lie well or need to lie better!

I believe the opposite of what ever you do. I've found its the best way to be assured of being right!

I know you Richard and other people of the mid and low lands. You're just jealous that Mardie's web site foresees the future.

 

[Ron Werner]

what I find pathetic about the CRI tests is that Bronze only removes what? 60-70% of the soil? And that square thingy accomplished that? BFD
I could get 60-70% soil removal with my Silver rated vacuum.
When CRI pulls the SOA on rug Dr and Sears and anything resembling them, THEN I'll have some respect for it. Until then, those companies just paid big bucks to get a sticker for advertising.

 

[GeeeAus]

As I understand it there is no cost to submit a machine for CRI certification. Please correct me if this is wrong.

To be honest, you guys don't appreciate how good you have it sometimes. In Australia we have this crappy standard called AS3733. It costs over $100 to buy this standard and some of the absolutely unfounded things it says just boggle the mind.

The BIGGEST issue I take with it is in regard to dry soil extraction. Like Ron this is my hot button. I WANT as much of that 80% as I can get. Now you guys have the CRI list of vacuums and a metric of performance measured against a consistent test.

We don't......

We get a self appointed and self declared document that states (and I paraphrase here) "A dual motor upright with a top fill HEPA bag" which tells me - nothing...... not a thing. Not how much soil by weight I should get over time like the CRI does. Instead we have something that (to me and perhaps only to me) reads like it is designed to sell Sebos. In Australia the - OVERWHELMING MAJORITY - of "dual motor uprights with top filling HEPA bags" are Sebos by name or by badge engineered supply through other vendors.

The document's purpose it seems to me is to establish a monopoly for a number of parties who themselves wrote the standard and have a vested financial interest in selling equipment the standard favours, like Sebo.

Others protest and say "Well you can exceed the standard", which is not actually obvious from reading it. And it is beyond a challenge to decide what constitutes exceeding such a standard. How does one exceed a "Dual motor upright with a top filing HEPA bag"? Three motors, one bigger motor, bagless with HEPA filter?

Now that Mikey has seen the Kirby for himself and made his own conclusions about it, I wonder how he would feel about taking the Kirby off his trucks and replacing it with a dual motor commercial Sebo? I - IN NO WAY - am attempting to put words in one of our bests mouth, but if his comments in the recent vacuum thread are anything to go by he'd refuse. Yet his Kirby, which is BETTER than the Sebo for dirt recovery has a single motor and strictly speaking is a domestic vacuum, even though it is a tank and just about indestructible.

You guys have WAY more transparency.

I apologise to my Australian counterparts who are actively using the AS3733 standard. My intention is not to call into question your work, your ethic or your opinion. My intention is merely to show that a standard that outlines a metric of performance is better and more up front and honest than one that doesn't.

Grant

 

[Desk Jockey]

I know you Richard and other people of the mid and low lands. You're just jealous that Mardie's web site foresees the future.

Mardie is most likely a very good cleaner.
He seems to really care about his finished product, his main fault (he has plenty! ) is the he believes so deeply in his "current" process to the point it blinds him. That's ok though, in a few years he will buy a TM and be just like the rest of us. He will have all the tools at his disposal and can choose what will work best depending on the situation.

Until that time I do enjoy picking on him, about as much as he seems he enjoys picking on me. I don't dislike the guy, just wish he'd pull his head out his ass. I suppose some people find a comfort zone and stay there.

 

[Ron Werner]

last I heard Grant, the "cost" to have equipment or a system tested was $5000. AS soon as they certified a Rug dr it negated any real benefit to those that invested in far superior machines. when they say a rug dr or a portable is capable of removing as much soil as a TM, something is wrong. Either that, or we have really been sold a bill of goods and TM's just aren't cleaning as much as we think, and we've wasted $1000's buying and operating them. Having begun this gig with a portable, then moving to a truck, I know for a fact that a porty won't match up.

The biggest factor is always the operator. Which was the whole point of CRI's testing, so that carpet manufacturers could say, "you didn't use "approved" equipment and it wasn't run by a "trained professional" so we aren't going to honour your warantee." So what do they do? They certify RENTAL equipment that will never be operated by a "Trained professional". I've talked with Mr Braun personally. He's a politician. Tells you one thing and appears to delegate, but no follow through, makes huge bucks and does nothing substantial. I wouldn't hire him to wash my truck let alone run my busn.
So Mardie, when you refer to CRI testing, it means a hill of beans to me. Common sense observations mean more than any CRI certification with a NASA sensor.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Meters DO lie, in many ways.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I know you Richard and other people of the mid and low lands. You're just jealous that Mardie's web site foresees the future.

Topeka is 200 ft higher than London ON.

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[The Great Oz]

... AS soon as they certified a Rug dr it negated any real benefit to those that invested in far superior machines. when they say a rug dr or a portable is capable of removing as much soil as a TM, something is wrong...

A portable is capable of removng as much soil as a truck mount. It will just take a lot longer to remove the same amount. The loophole was allowing the manufacturer to specify how many cleaning passes they wanted to use.

The biggest factor is always the operator. Which was the whole point of CRI's testing, so that carpet manufacturers could say, "you didn't use "approved" equipment and it wasn't run by a "trained professional" so we aren't going to honour your warantee."...

True. The CRI wanted both "trained professional" which at the time meant IICRC training, (people picked at that) and "approved equipment" which meant HWE over interim appearance methods.

Remember that the CRI program was started with an eye toward getting rid of all of the tile and VCT chemicals that were sold to clean carpet. It worked very well to rid the industry of garbage (mostly jan-san) products. The next step was to approve vacuums, which, although you can pick at the program a bit, also worked. The cleaning equipment testing program succeeded in putting foam, powder and bonnet methods outside of the "deep cleaning" category.

They'll make HWE equipment grading more realistic soon, they just have to step lightly to avoid being sued by those that lose position.


PS: Mr. Braun has announced his retirement.

 

[extremecleantn]

Shorty, we cleaned about 900 feet there, about half was that greasy. Two hours for $465.

Jim...we didn't have the HOSS with us...

Did you scrub that with a 175 or something first ?

 

[ruff]

Topeka is 200 ft higher than London ON.

No way! Get out of here.

I talked to Richard and he sounds like he's always sitting at a bottom of a well.

And with his newly rediscovered inner Mahatma, I ain't giving him an inch over London ON.

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[Ron Werner]

if there was no dry vacuuming, Portable would never remove as much as a truck, it just hasn't the power of vacuum nor flushing ability. Maybe a few of the newer units come close, but all the ones I've seen on the SOA list sure don't. I do agree that a portable and get the appearance as well or better than some guys with TMs. Hec, just prepping the carpet can make it look better than the last guy!!

I think they should have tested their testing before moving ahead. They'll be back tracking a lot and as you said, will have to tread lightly.

 

[ruff]

A portable is capable of removng as much soil as a truck mount. It will just take a lot longer to remove the same amount. The loophole was allowing the manufacturer to specify how many cleaning passes they wanted to use.

For that matter, so would a tooth brush, bucket of water, some good towels and lots of patience.

The question is: Say, one used a CRI (Gold? Platinum? Midland rust?) seal of approval equipment, and they started cleaning the carpet today.
Will the Obama administration still be in the white house when they're done?

They'll make HWE equipment grading more realistic soon, they just have to step lightly to avoid being sued by those that lose position.

Their previous 'sealathon' did not exactly tread lightly.
Could the legal fees be financed with the previous 'sealathon' windfall?

You'd think that their primary interest should be advising their clients as to the best process to maintain the integrity and extend the life of their product.
Shouldn't they be interested (ethically and professionally) in giving the best, unbiased, straight forward advise to the people who keep them in business?

 

[Keeping up]

Ok, so it is pretty much confirmed by those on this board the CRI will approve about any cleaning machine or system as long as you pay them. Is this actually public confirmed knowledge? Is it the same for their chemical approval process?

What about some of the other designations like Green Seal View attachment 3764

 

[Ron Werner]

well, they approved Rug Dr cleaning solutions

It may not be "public confirmed knowledge", they try to hide the fact that its more a money grab than accurate. But common sense will show anyone that has knowledge of the systems and machines and chemistry that they say is worthy of "Gold" that its more of a joke in reality. And try and tell them how they can improve it... in one ear and out the corporate other.
As mentioned, the whole purpose was to decrease claims, to have trained PROFESSIONALS using PROFESSIONAL equipment and PROFESSIONAL chemistry. And one of the first machines they certify is RENTAL equipment. Kinda loses its credibility really quick.

 

[Rob Rocha]

I've been using a 175 with mostly cotton pads "Glad pads" for 25years, and have had less than 10 call backs. When 90% of that fiber is brand new even a dirty path way you don't need to soak it to get it clean. I know nobody who posts on this forum soaks carpets. I go slow let the machine do the work, it supplies plenty of heat that way. The carpets look great there dry almost immediately everyone is happy. So the next time anyone thinks of soaking a carpet pull those fibers apart and see how clean they really are except near the surface.

 

[Keeping up]

But common sense will show anyone that has knowledge of the systems and machines and chemistry that they say is worthy of "Gold" that its more of a joke in reality.



I agree but lots of consumers do not have common sense and or any knowledge of the systems or machines. Bring in ..lets say the kent self contained cheap ass rental from home depot that no one knows about, tell the consumer its cri certified,(It is) and they are good with it.

It really stinks!

 

[Ron Werner]

You nailed it JT. That's what many of us have been spending a lot of energy doing...educating the customer. Then the CRI comes out with their SOA BSand destroys much the effort we have put out. The CRI is an "authority" in our industry and they have just out right lied to people. Customers don't know, they get confused because all the cleaners say the same thing, "we will get your fabrics clean and we do it better than the other guy" and now the CRI, just to make money, has given "credibility" to rental machines and unprofessional cleaners.

Look at the list of Platinum "systems", look at the companies and the machines. Makes me laugh!
They are comparing a Aerotech to a Karcher portable Mind you, its Cintas, so the portable might do a better job. Then there is Stanley and Sears etc etc. Anyone here think those two companies do a Platinum level of cleaning??
http://www.carpet-rug.org/commercia...approval-products/systems-list.cfm?manuf_id=0


We, as PROFESSIONALS, are supposed to know what works and what doesn't, what the limitations of any particular machine or method is, and still be able to clean appropriately. Like Grant, he doesn't have a big machine, but he puts in the steps and he cleans better than 70% of the so called "cleaners" out there.

 

[dgardner]

The old Beta videotape format was technically better than VHS, with better picture quality, etc., but VHS was aggressively, constantly marketed. Anyone remember Beta? I didn't think so....

 

[ruff]

Dan, most don't remember VHS

But you're right. Unfortunately great marketing, many times will trump and win over a clearly superior product or service.

We don't have to look far to know it.

 

[Mardie]

Why are you TM guys getting in such a hissy over this CRI thing ? Have you ever lost a job because of it ? Has it ever cost you money because you are not approved ? I see the CRI approval program is set up for the carpet mills to justify their warranty programs and nothing more. As they say follow the money.

 

[Mardie]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Ron Werner]

If you were really serious about this industry Mardie, and wanting to get truthful information out to the public, then maybe you'd understand. I haven't lost any jobs because of it but I know there are people that are abusing this industry and giving it a bad rep by basically taking people to the cleaners, and THAT's why I get a little hissy over it. By the time some people call me, they've been through the ringer with Sears, or some other guy that said he was "certified", in the house less than 30 min and leaves with over $200-1000. They almost make me want some form of govt control....ALMOST! But govt regulations would be worse. They'd take instructions for a spin top toy and make it 20pages long and need someone to certify it first, through 3 levels of management.

 

[joey895]

I use VLM but this is why it will not be my primary method any time soon and will never be my only method.

The during pic by the way is after a heavy scrubbing with the crb.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Monarch]

Great pic!