Now that I've been OPing for a while now..

[Mikey P]

I can confidently say that I've mastered the System" as much as anyone could ever hope to, I have to say, that as a stand alone method it really is nothing more then grinding in the dirt with maybe 20% soil removal at best.


Sure we can choose to fool our commercial clients with it and solve the messes the HWE soakers create but it can not even come close to comparing to a good vac-scrub-rinse-pad super cleaning.


And in many cases it is outright fraud to call it "Cleaning" at any level.

Will I continue to offer it on CGD situations?

Sure.




As long as they let me do a periodic rinsing as part of the upkeep.





Suffice it to say if you only offer OP/VLM, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[steve g]

it along with encap, doesn't give acceptable results imo, its just like washing your hair or your vehicle you don't spray it with chemical and then rub it around with a towel and call it good do you?? the cleaning process MUST contain a rinse mechanism. yes john G, there must be a rinse mechanism, I am sorry you will never admit it because you only sell OP machines but its the truth and to say otherwise hurts your credibility with the members here, stand alone OP users are generally only OP because the equipment is much cheaper, to some of us money is no object for equipment cost, in this case its not about the money its about the better system

 

[Art Kelley]

imo, its just like washing your hair or your vehicle you don't spray it with chemical and then rub it around with a towel and call it good do you?? the cleaning process MUST contain a rinse mechanism. "

Actually I do spray my hair with diluted Pantene Pro V when I don't have time to shower, or if my hair needs a freshening up, especially if I'm about to go to my next job and I'm a mess. I'll even spray it on my body and towel off. Dissolves the oils and gives you that just showered smell chicks dig. I'm sure it's the same with VLM methods: just dissolve the acidic film on the carpet and freshen it up.

 

[hogjowl]

I agree with you Mikey. I believe it is an inferior system compared to HWE, when HWE is correctly done, but there still are situations where certain factors make it an appropriate choice in commercial environments.

It's never my choice in residential.

 

[Jay D]

DITTO! :shock:

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I'd only add one thing:

You have NOT mastered the system.

....of course no one has mastered every nuance of HWE either.

I have several residential customers who are primarily OP. When I eventually hwe them I rejet the wands flow and pressure down and make extra drying passes to allay their "fear of steam".

Whatever tool it takes,
Lee

 

[Mikey P]

Mastering the OP system is nothing more then knowing when to stop so you don't damage the pile.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

...or knowing when to NOT use it at all.

 

[Mikey P]

John will be along shortly to tell us that if you have other options then you will never be a true master you will.

 

[steve frasier]

so I guess that you don't believe in the words pad extraction :shock:

you are really going to disappointment Derek

 

[Mikey P]

Pad Extraction...

LOL..

The lies VLMers have to tell them selves just kills me.

 

[WISE]

I obviously have NOT mastered the OP system...as I just returned from a job where I shredded two pads.


WISE

And yes Jeremy, they were plenty wet

 

[Brad_Smith]

Anyone with open eyes will come to same conclusion as MP.

When my butler was down for 2 weeks ( stupid person pulled in front of me ) I padded my rentals. I used a brute, a heavy 175, and cimex. I hated myself for those 2 two weeks. There is no way I'm padding a residential.

Those pad guys act like they feel sorry for Hwe guys cause it's "so much work". When I got my butler back I felt like I was "high". It was so much easier and almost relaxing.

I hope op/encap is just a fad. I guess it hides the dirt for cheap accounts until a real system comes in and rinses the shit out.

 

[The Asian Sensation]

This was what Ive been saying all along for how long now?!

 

[hogjowl]

Yeah, but you ain't "normal."

 

[The Asian Sensation]

Yeah, but you ain't "normal."

And this coming from YOU?!!!

 

[steve frasier]

I obviously have NOT mastered the OP system...as I just returned from a job where I shredded two pads.

that would be my biggest complaint about the method, pads don't last and they don't come clean no matter how many times you wash them

I am off to see Iron Man, late

 

[WISE]

People really do op residential???

Is that even legal?

WISE

 

[Fred Geyen]

Mikey you touched me.

I was so guilty with VLM I just drove one of our 7 TM's right through the glass entry of the 51 story IDS building in Minneapolis driving past the security guards slamming into the freight elevator doors hoping to squeeze in. SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS! NO MORE! NO MORE VLM FOR ME!



www.geyengroup.com

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mikey;

I disagree...

Assume a complete vacuum to start with.

Compare 1 cleaning process to 1 cleaning process...

A good encapsulation chemical with a quality microfiber pad WILL stay clean longer than ANY hot water extraction cleaning.

The amount of soil initially removed is higher with HWE, but the resoil rate is higher with HWE.

If your residential customer had white carpet, she would be happier with the job that stayed clean the longest.

Larry Cobb

 

[hogjowl]

Larry:

Keep selling and leave the cleaning to us.

 

[Art Kelley]

A good encapsulation chemical with a quality microfiber pad WILL stay clean longer than ANY hot water extraction cleaning.

The amount of soil initially removed is higher with HWE, but the resoil rate is higher with HWE.

If your residential customer had white carpet, she would be happier with the job that stayed clean the longest.

Larry Cobb

That's crazy. A carpet loaded with encap detergents and soil will stay cleaner than a carpet that's been flushed of all detergents and soil by a soft water rinse? I don't think even you really believe that, Larry.

 

[Mikey P]

Larry has six of those old style Hrubys on the floor that no one wants so give him a break.

 

[Brad_Smith]

It has to get clean before it can stay clean.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Marty & Mikey;

I'm a TM proponent & cleaner.

I sell far more HWE equip & chem. than Encap.

I have cleaned several thousand sq.ft.of our level-loop carpet with:

1. Fire-breathing 38 HP system w/ #59 blower and 240° of heat.
(I've even tried a new Vortex TM)

2. Encap with microfiber bonnets

Initially, the HWE looks slightly cleaner....

As the days go by, the Encap cleaning looks better than the HWE.

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

Are you making this assumption on cleaning out comes on the carpet in your store front?



Did you have the HWE tech do a pre and post padding?

Fresh water rinse?


Heavy duty pre vac?

 

[Vinnie]

Wheres John G.

 

[DavidVB]

How many commenting on this subject have large commercial maintenance accounts say 60,000 sq.ft. and up. What works on doctors offices and skating rinks may apply.

If you have commercial accounts that are willing to pay for vacuuming, pre-treating, scrubbing, rinsing and post padding that is great. What are you charging for that? If you are trying to compete for large maintenance accounts, most will laugh you out the door when you quote profitably for that. How much commercial carpet is being improperly extracted because of low prices? Properly performed VLM is better than splash and dash.

I have seen over and over the truth of what Larry says. We have noticed for years that our VLM maintenance cleanings stay looking clean longer than HWE. (I personally think there are logical reasons for that.) Plus I can make a profit at competitive rates and on a good maintenance program HWE can be rarely needed. The best money I have ever made has been at 8 and 9 cents per foot.

If is fine with me for cleaners to conclude that HWE is the only proper way to maintain commercial carpet.

 

[John G]

ROFLMAO.... "Mastered the method".

You bet Mikey, you are so smart that in mastered in a couple months what others have taken years to do, what arrogance!

Some have it, some don't, some most assuredly never will!


With your mindset, we all KNEW you would never master it nor learn it even properly. So at least all things considered, things are going just as planned eh?

 

[Desk Jockey]

We feel it's best used as maintenance for commercial accounts.

Does it work?
Well, the appearance is maintained, it looks good, and that's what we were asked to do. Fraud? I think they are getting what they want. :?

Would HWE remove more soil?

I would think so, but the production would be much lower, which would make the cost per sq/ft much higher. Higher per sq/ft would make it virtually impossible for them to use you on a regular basis.

To be in the game you have to crank out the numbers and TM HWE isn't going to get you there on a consistent basis when cleaning 10's of thousands of sq/ft.


Ashamed of myself, no more than normal!