Oh lordy but I need that ASD class like yesterday.

[Mikey P]

Bad storm going through the area.

Two water damages today and it's more apparent than ever that I don't have a clue as to what I'm really suppose to do legality and safety wise.


M6F can't get here soon enough.


Who else is staying for the class?

 

[Pmatte]

You'll really enjoy the class.I took it there back in 2003 or 04. Great facility!

 

[Ron Werner]

it's more apparent than ever that I don't have a clue as to what I'm really suppose to do legality and safety wise.

Thats why I don't do it any more. I don't do it often enough to remember, so I refer it to the "specialists".

 

[KevinL]

I should and need to be there. I'm gonna try.

 

[Cameron1]

I am, but do we need to sign up?l

 

[Lefty724]

How is SC Mike? Salinas is going crazy down here. I just saw the "flash flood warning" for sc, felton , scotts valley, etc.....

BTW: I do not do WD...So I would like to take a course too!

 

[steve g]

the problem with those type of jobs is most of the time insurance will not pay, if I quote someone what its going to cost the insurance, 95% of people will have a heart attack, I don't normally like to work for discounted rates, but when I do I quote an upfront price with the understanding payment is due when work is done.

 

[Al]

I need ASD ASAP! :shock: I'm planning on that class 8)

 

[Desk Jockey]

I hate rain water losses, but there is no way around doing them, your customers will call and you will need to service them.

Rain water jobs can be a real trap unless you have good communications with the customers.
Give them clear expectations on price and end product as well as what the procedures are.

RAIN WATER Questions and Consideration

Where did it come in from?
Because if it’s ground water the bill is most likely going to be paid by them.
Many times a homeowner assumes that since the basement is wet and they have insurance they are covered. Most do not know that their policy does not cover foundation seepage.

Has it stopped coming in?
Not much point in going until the water stops coming in. It is just not costs effective to keep up with water that continues to seep in.

How big an area is wet?
Get an idea of size, nothing like running out to what the customer said was wet all over to find it’s only a small area. Or the opposite go expecting a small loss and find out it’s large.

Inform them you can send a crew out, but you will need a signed work authorization and a check for deposit/deductible. You might as well start talking about money now, if they don’t have it now they surely won’t have it later. If they don’t have the money in their account, how about Visa or Mastercard?

Get right to the nitty gritty, what are they looking at in the end. Give them an average, depending on other factors like:

Deep Water
Means more is affected, dry wall, insulation, framing

Larger areas
Larger areas will most likely mean more equipment, thus more expensive.

Large amounts of furniture
Lots of contents means more time to move them, thus more expensive.

Contamination
Pad should be discarded, which will increase the time spent on the job, maybe even the carpet depending on the water source and length of time sitting wet.

 

[Mikey P]

Steve, we'll have sign ups in January.

I'll save you and Sims a spot.

 

[Ed]

Do you have your WRT?

Richard, do you consider a ground water loss 2 or 3?
We consider it a 3. We pull both carpet and pad unless it's uninsured and the homeowner absolutely doesn't want us to. We have them sign a very detailed hold harmless waiver, then we'll procede. It's hard to communicate to a customer that by not pulling carpet, you aren't realizing a huge price difference in the end. You pay for equipment or you pay for carpet and pad.

 

[KeithCo]

I was just going to post what Richard did, but he beat me to it.

Nothing will be covered unless it's high winds.

I hate being in the water damage business during storm season.

While it was flooding hard here we were happy with a burst water heater,
a washing machine hose, and an excellent install job by Sears of an icemaker.

All insurance covered and no shoveling mud out of the house.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Ed the answer is yes, 2 & 3. :wink:

Two when pressed by the insured, 3 when it's insured.

It only makes sense that it would be a 3- according to the standards, but I don't own the carpet and I'm not the IICRC Police, so unless there is mud or dirty water throughout the carpet it's a hard fight trying to convince a homeowner that it needs to come out.

We usually replace the pad, dry, clean & apply disinfectant.

Did I mention I hate rain water jobs? :shock:

 

[Al]

Wow, I look foward to rain jobs :shock: I didn't know we were sposed to hate em.

I've made out good so far :?: We have flood warnings today too

 

[Desk Jockey]

Al
I hate them for many reasons, the demand is often more than we can reasonably handle.

The injection business is good, but there is soo much risk!

A big storm can generate 20 calls, or 20 calls an minute, we've had hundreds of calls a day and they all want you NOW.

Risk of nonpayment is high. Even those that think they are insured can find out days later (after our work is complete) that there is actually no coverage. :shock:

Many have foundation problems which means no coverage, and it has often been going on for extended lengths of time.

Because it's been an on going problem every time it rains hard, you will most likely find mold.

No coverage for mold, probably no coverage for the rain water and now you are in the middle of an environmental bomb and no one to pay to clean it up.

People change on you, as bad as they wanted you and they were thrilled they made it to the top of the list, they turn evil once it's dry.

They start complaining about your rates , why did you leave so much equipment and they thought it was dry long before you picked it up.

As the crews get tired, whether it's a day, a week, the work can begin to come unraveled. If they miss something it can really bite you.

Even if the work is good, breakage can increase, vehicle damage increase. It can really get ugly after a week or two.

Even our tech's attitude change after several days, at first they are excited, then they lose that, but are in it for the extra money.

Then they don't care about the money, they just want it to end and get back to normal.

Even the office staff has had enough.

We don't look forward to it at all!

Is it good for business, yes, but you earn every bit of it!

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Mike do you know if you have to be certed in WD already to attend ASD?

I need sum edukation too

 

[Brian R]

I was out of town for the big storm...got to see the fallen trees when I got back.

Did one tiny flood job.

I don't promote that much.

 

[Pmatte]

Brad, yes you have to have your WRT,the ASD class is the next level.If I remember correctly there is littl review to refresh the mind but the class moves fast,is jam packed with info and next to my Trauma class,was very fun!
Patrick

 

[steve g]

Al
I hate them for many reasons, the demand is often more than we can reasonably handle.

The injection business is good, but there is soo much risk!

A big storm can generate 20 calls, or 20 calls an minute, we've had hundreds of calls a day and they all want you NOW.

Risk of nonpayment is high. Even those that think they are insured can find out days later (after our work is complete) that there is actually no coverage. :shock:

Many have foundation problems which means no coverage, and it has often been going on for extended lengths of time.

Because it's been an on going problem every time it rains hard, you will most likely find mold.

No coverage for mold, probably no coverage for the rain water and now you are in the middle of an environmental bomb and no one to pay to clean it up.

People change on you, as bad as they wanted you and they were thrilled they made it to the top of the list, they turn evil once it's dry.

They start complaining about your rates , why did you leave so much equipment and they thought it was dry long before you picked it up.

As the crews get tired, whether it's a day, a week, the work can begin to come unraveled. If they miss something it can really bite you.

Even if the work is good, breakage can increase, vehicle damage increase. It can really get ugly after a week or two.

Even our tech's attitude change after several days, at first they are excited, then they lose that, but are in it for the extra money.

Then they don't care about the money, they just want it to end and get back to normal.

Even the office staff has had enough.

We don't look forward to it at all!

Is it good for business, yes, but you earn every bit of it!

chavez hit it just about right, the real issue is $$$$$ if you are being honest. if you understand how much money you can charge if its paid by insurance, the home owner will freak if quote them that amount. The problem is if you take on a rain water deal, just by taking it on you need to be prepared to do the job at least to the point where the home owner will not be in danger after the dryout is done, if you don't you could be sued and at the very least do the job for free or have an attorney after you.

here is another scenario, that happened to me,this time it was a sewer loss, but the same example applies as both situations coverage is in doubt. guy calls me out with a sewer backup come to find out it was caused by the city not clearing out sand and dirt from recent mud slides in the area. anyways we thought the city's insurance would cover it, wrong they would not, in this case, we wanted to dispose the carpets and cut the drywall 2 feet up, customer did not want that done, I told them lets at least cut the carpet out, the customer gets confirmation that there is no coverage for sure, now he is mad and does not want to pay anything because I cut out his carpet. when insurance is not involved its easy to get caught in the middle when trying to handle a loss at least doing just the minimum items to keep the customer from having mold or health issues. if you do tear it out they get mad, if you don't then you are left with liability issues, its also essential IMO to understand basically whats covered and whats not in a standard policy, allstate for instance does not cover ANY outside water, their view is if the water touches the ground there is not coverage, every other company will cover say a broken sprinkler line in the yard that brakes and floods the basement, this scenario is about half the losses I handle during the summer months and yest I have seen people get stuck with 10's of thousands worth of damage, note to anyone reading this if you have allstate on your personal home shittt can it, especially if you have a basement.

bottom line get paid enough to do the job correctly or don't do it at all I say. keep in mind something called the stripper syndrome, THE VALUE OF SERVICES RENDERED ARE SUBSTANTIALLY LESS...... AFTER THEY ARE RENDERED.

 

[Desk Jockey]

keep in mind something called the stripper syndrome, THE VALUE OF SERVICES RENDERED ARE SUBSTANTIALLY LESS...... AFTER THEY ARE RENDERED

LOL!!!

 

[Kevin Hamer]

1. To many calls to handle. So what do what you can handle.
2. Hard getting paid. Done right their are ways to prevent this.
3. Equipment breakage. the profit in restoration work makes this a nonissue.
4. Employees start complaining. Get new employees. With the money being made doing this work nobody should be complaining.
5. Homeowners telling you what to do, tear out or not. Well anyone who would let a homeowner tell them how to do thier work shouldnt be doing this type of work.

The list could go on and on. Water restoration is not as dificult as some make it out to be, or as high risk. I would much rather do 10 average water restoration jobs a month than 100 cleaning jobs a month.

 

[Desk Jockey]

1. To many calls to handle. So what do what you can handle.
2. Hard getting paid. Done right their are ways to prevent this.
3. Equipment breakage. the profit in restoration work makes this a nonissue.
4. Employees start complaining. Get new employees. With the money being made doing this work nobody should be complaining.
5. Homeowners telling you what to do, tear out or not. Well anyone who would let a homeowner tell them how to do thier work shouldnt be doing this type of work.

1.
Exactly, we are limited on what we can do. The last major storm we did 70 of 600 calls.

2.
We do all we can to minimize no pays, but prevent? Only if you demand cash in hand prior to the job. Few customers will go that far.

3.
Profit is good but you have to know your limits. A tired employee can get in a wreck and you end up with a work comp claim that will make you forget about making it big.

4.
Tech's will complain when they are tired, and been away from wives, girlfriends and family.
Money motivates, but when they've reached their comfort zone it no longer motivates.
Replacing them in the middle of a run is no where near as easy as you make it sound.

5.
Homeowner will always tell you what to do, it's their home. It's up to the restorer to educate that as to what should be done. You can't force them to do something they either don't want done or don't have the funds to do.

Water damage work is easy, it's the little shit that can trip you up and land you in court or paying an attorney to keep you out of court.

We would much rather do WDR work also, in fact our company does over 80% restoration work. The pay is better but the risks are higher despite how you may personally feel.

 

[Kevin Hamer]

1. To many calls to handle. So what do what you can handle.
2. Hard getting paid. Done right their are ways to prevent this.
3. Equipment breakage. the profit in restoration work makes this a nonissue.
4. Employees start complaining. Get new employees. With the money being made doing this work nobody should be complaining.
5. Homeowners telling you what to do, tear out or not. Well anyone who would let a homeowner tell them how to do thier work shouldnt be doing this type of work.

1.
Exactly, we are limited on what we can do. The last major storm we did 70 of 600 calls.

2.
We do all we can to minimize no pays, but prevent? Only if you demand cash in hand prior to the job. Few customers will go that far.

3.
Profit is good but you have to know your limits. A tired employee can get in a wreck and you end up with a work comp claim that will make you forget about making it big.

4.
Tech's will complain when they are tired, and been away from wives, girlfriends and family.
Money motivates, but when they've reached their comfort zone it no longer motivates.
Replacing them in the middle of a run is no where near as easy as you make it sound.

5.
Homeowner will always tell you what to do, it's their home. It's up to the restorer to educate that as to what should be done. You can't force them to do something they either don't want done or don't have the funds to do.

Water damage work is easy, it's the little shit that can trip you up and land you in court or paying an attorney to keep you out of court.

We would much rather do WDR work also, in fact our company does over 80% restoration work. The pay is better but the risks are higher despite how you may personally feel.

2. Work authorization w/credit card number has worked great for us.


4. For months on end of work yes, but during storm serges when you go strong for 2 weeks, no one should be complaining. Thats when they need to suck it up and do the work when its there. Cant let an employee go during the busy times but you sure can learn who the real workers are.

5. I disagee to an extent on this one. Depending on the type of water damage there are options but if the job cant be done correctly than I pass.

Of course the risks are higher but what I meant is its just not as high as some people make it out to be.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Kevin that's great, however they can cancel the purchase if they are using a credit card. Other than cash you have no real guarantee.

Kevin Hammer wrote: Business skills. After getting off the truck after 18 yrs and going into the office, implementing a business plan and dealing with employees is by far the hardest for me.

You yourself said dealing with employees is hard for you. If you treat your employees with little respect, you're going to have some difficulties. Employees will not generally have the same commitment the owner does. After working storms for 3-4 days I understand it puts a strains on the household and their relationship.

No problem with if you disagree, you run your company as you chose. We work for the homeowner, even when their is an Insurance company involved. We inform them of the situation, they don't always like what we recommend, but it is their home. As long as we document and have them sign off we will pretty much do what they want with in some reason.

I agree, we don't need to scare people that are interested in getting in the business away. However a pipe break, an washer hose break or other covered loss has much fewer issues and are much easier to process that Rain Water work.

 

[kmdineen]

Richard and Ed, if you pull pad or carpet and pad on a rain water loss do you also remove all porous affected material such as baseboard and sheetrock? I think it would be hard to justify doing one without the other.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Only on the ones that are extremely contaminated.

Muddy pad, muddy carpet.

The problem is, these are the jobs where there is generally NO coverage, ground water.

Homeowners can understand the carpet, but are less likely to want walls removed.

If exterior walls and insulation is saturated we will show them how bad it's affected. Some will still chose not to remove and we have them sign a noncompliance.

On the others, we will pressure wash and apply disinfectant.

 

[Ed]

We consider all ground water cat 3. We write our estimates that way, insured or not, explain it to the homeowner that way and when the uninsured soil themselves because of the price, we give them options and find a middle ground that I'm comfortable with. I will not simply extract and walk away. If we don't dry it, we don't do it.

I could give about 10 different scenarios and what my limits on each were but I've been up since 1:15 a.m. this morning. We had 2 fires come in yesterday evening/this morning and I'm pooped. Unlike my mentor Chevy Chavez :mrgreen: , I still have to get dirty every once and a while.

 

[Desk Jockey]

2-fires, I don't feel sorry for you, I'm jealous! :wink:

Congrats!