OSR/Molecular modifier on cat pee...Did I do this right?

[gimmeagig]

I did a cat urine job last week. My blacklight showed two 12 foot by 2 foot areas along the walls in a kids playroom solid cat urine. The customer was planning to have a party the following day and since the family room was close by, didn't want the guests to be repulsed by the stench.There also was a similar area in the master bedroom walk in closet.
I mixed up a 1 1/2 gallons of OSR in my pump sprayer ( which has a pressure relief valve) then I completely saturated the areas and agitated the areas The stench got much worse right away.I did a regular cleaning on the rest of the carpets but not the urine areas.I left the OSR in the carpets for about an hour all together.Then I extracted the OSR but did not rinse it. I only rinsed the unaffected areas.
After that the smell was better but still noticeable. I got out my molecular modifier and because the scent of it is very strong I diluted it about 50/50 and sprayed the areas with it. I also stuck the nozzle into the carpet pad in a bunch of places to get the MM into the pad.
My thought was that since those were not traffic areas that I could just leave the OSR in.Oxygen first and enzymes after would be good.
Now I'm just wondering since I did not actually rinse the OSR out completely if the enzymes in the Molecular Modifier could be killed by the residue of the OSR?
The customer was not home while I did the work but I have not gotten a complaint, so I'm hoping it turned out OK.
I did recommend to the customer to replace the carpet and the pad and use kills etc.. I just wanted to make sure they got through their party without embarrassment.
So did I do this right or should I have done something differently?

 

[John Olson]

Did you go back and rinse out the MM? It isn't meant to be left in. I would also suggest adding CTI to your contact list on your phone 800-368-1247 and ask for Todd. As for your question about OSR killing the enzymes I would defer to Todd as I'm not a 100% in what I think.

 

[gimmeagig]

No I didn't rinse the MM because the areas were on the side of the room and I figured since that is not a high traffic area it would be OK.Also I did not put the MM in full strengh.

 

[Goomer]

I would NOT think 1.5 gallons would have been enough to TOTALLY saturate the pad and carpet in a area larger than the noticeable surface area appears to be. Always a good Idea to extend the perimeter and saturate a larger area than what you can see on the surface.

Cti just recommends extracting it, and does not mention flushing it further. I think it continues to oxidize until completely dry.
I always flush/clean the top carpet further with my wand, but do not flush the pad any further. Although clawing pulls liquid from the pad nicely, it tends to leave a lot of liquid up top at times, so I always clean it throughly afterwards.

I wouldn't think anything live like enzymes (bacterial cultures) could handle that much active oxidation and remain effective. Probably works best as a follow up treatment.

 

[John Olson]

Leaving the MM on the carpet will be a soil attractor. You should always go back and rinse it out. The bottle say Highly recommend but it should say "you must"

 

[bonesheal]

When you use OSR next to the wall you have to be very careful not to get it under the wall. Your Water Claw won't get that out, so it will stay wet. Better to open that up and treat it from the back.

A 12x2' pee spot next to the wall would set off alarms for me. Did you shine your blacklight on the wall? I'd like to blacklight it and put a moisture meter on it, because after you clean the carpet the wall may continue to stink. If it does, you could replace some sheetrock or just seal it and explain to the customer that you are locking all that pee in their wall (I might not say it like that).

I did not know that about MM--I thought it was an enzyme, and therefore needed to be left in--can anyone clarify?

 

[FLYERMAN]

I can't imagine a less effective or more expensive or slower way to do what you just described. Besides the re-soiling effect of the MM the fact that you had to do two steps was indicative of not doing the first step thoroughly in the first place. I mean no offense but had you used OSR correctly you wouldn't have needed the MM.

With that said my MM experience is limited. I like how well it works but a long time ago I went in search of a cheaper way. I found it and it is called Enz-All. Mix it with water in the 125° range. Pour it on the carpet to the tune of about a gallon per 2 to 3 square feet. Without hooking up your wand to your tm massage the carpet/pad with the wand and watch the yellow goo move around. I always push from the outside edge towards the center of the affected area that I just saturated. Now let that sit for as long as 30 minutes, sometimes as little as ten, then extract.

 

[gimmeagig]

I did check the walls and they were fine and I know that MM if you leave it in attracts dirt. My main concern was to make sure the people were going to be able to have their party without any of the guests gagging. Also the urine infested areas were on the sides of the kids play room away from traffic areas. What I did was not meant to be a permanent solution. These people had money and can afford to re carpet that room.The room was nasty.and who wants their kids to play on something like that?
I was just talking to the customer service guy at Esteam and he recommended their product called "Pet Stain and Odor Remover".
I know that research keeps going on and I don't want to get stuck using one product because i don't know what else is out there..So is there a "Latest and Greatest" pet urine solution, some kind of new technology that kicks but on anything else?

 

[bonesheal]

I know that research keeps going on and I don't want to get stuck using one product because i don't know what else is out there..So is there a "Latest and Greatest" pet urine solution, some kind of new technology that kicks but on anything else?

I would be far less effective without OSR and enzymes, not at the same time. When you have to nuke it, OSR will save you, and when you can't be that aggressive, I don't know any better option than enzymes. There are other products that do exactly what OSR does, and maybe just as well--it's just the one that my distributor carries and it works, so I keep buying it. I believe Petzone is very similar, and I'd love to hear about any others.

 

[gimmeagig]

CTI is a good company with great customer support. I'll gladly keep buying their stuff. But I'm always looking.

 

[tmdry]

Did you mix OSR in a large bucket and dumped the entire solution HOT onto the carpet or did you just spray it down using your pump up sprayer?

Also did you use a water claw?

 

[sam miller]

Did you mix OSR in a large bucket and dumped the entire solution HOT onto the carpet or did you just spray it down using your pump up sprayer?

Also did you use a water claw?

Thats what I was thinking! He said He used a pump sprayer, which If You follow the directions it says use the hottest water possible!

I let my truck mount heat up to 200 and then fill a hydroforce bottle add 3 to 4 scoops at the stain and let it flow like lava all over the carpet while moving the bottle with a towel.

Then work it in with a wand and extract with a claw! added odorcide on some nasty cat smell and if done correctly you can get down there and sniff and no odor!

I would think in a sprayer you couldnt get it hot enough and the pressure from the oxygen release would hurt it?

 

[sam miller]

Also CTI has Youtube videos at proschoice.com with step by step solutions for light to moderate to heavy treatments!

 

[gimmeagig]

Did you mix OSR in a large bucket and dumped the entire solution HOT onto the carpet or did you just spray it down using your pump up sprayer?

Also did you use a water claw?

Thats what I was thinking! He said He used a pump sprayer, which If You follow the directions it says use the hottest water possible!

I let my truck mount heat up to 200 and then fill a hydroforce bottle add 3 to 4 scoops at the stain and let it flow like lava all over the carpet while moving the bottle with a towel.

Then work it in with a wand and extract with a claw! added odorcide on some nasty cat smell and if done correctly you can get down there and sniff and no odor!

I would think in a sprayer you couldnt get it hot enough and the pressure from the oxygen release would hurt it?

Hi Sam,
That's why I posted my question here. As opposed to some of you guys I'm still tapping in the dark on some of this stuff.
I do have a very solid hydroforce sprayer that has a pressure relief valve in it and can handle the heat. Yes, I got the water directly from my truckmount, probably around 180. I sprayed the areas and I also pushed the nozzle into the carpet. The reason why I didn't use a bucket was that one of the areas was on an upper level of the house and I didn't want to have my stuff pour through the ceiling. I'm not sure how much I can pour into a pad before I'm running the risk of doing that especially since I need to let the solution dwell for a while.

"fill a hydroforce bottle add 3 to 4 scoops at the stain and let it flow like lava all over the carpet while moving the bottle with a towel."
I may run the risk of sounding stupid but I'm trying to picture what you do there. So I have some questions:
First,what is a hydroforce bottle?
Is that something they make specifically for this?
How much liquid does it hold?
Weren't some of you saying that my 1 1/2 gal wasn't enough?
And what do you mean by adding 4 to 4 scoops at the stain.
Do you fill the Hydoforce bottle with just hot water and then add the scoops of OSR?
How do you get it to mix evenly with the water?
And the moving the bottle with a hot towel?

Can you dumb it down for a new guy like me? I just don't understand what you are telling me.
I will check out those pro's choice videos for sure, I didn't know they had them
As far as using a water claw,I have one but I confess, I have never used it. So much to learn for me still.
Thanks

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Yes CTI is a great resource and everyone needs to talk several times with Todd about the products. This was and is a total replace job. Don't even have to be there to know the backing and the pad are soaked. That big an area (the 12x2) yer talking about is at least 1 1/2hrs of labor and many more gallons of OSR. If you've got piss right up to the baseboard and you want to flood with OSR you risk soaking the tack strips, sheet rock and possible a wall plate. Takes 15+ min for OSR to be effective. And from what you described you'd have to dump dwell and suck twice. Can only be done on concrete subfloor and if you pour closer then 8 inches from the baseboard and dwell more then 15 min you risk to much traveling in the pad to the tack strips.

If you wanted to attempt Molecular Mod. you needed to have started with that first and stayed with it. Peel back, spray the concrete, both sides of pad, back of carpet the kick and tuck the carpet back over the tack strips. Lastly spray the top liberally. Cover with plastic for at least 8 hours. But the perfume is going to blast everyone out. After 8 hours it needs to air dry with some level of air movement for a day, more like to. Probably take 2-3 gallons in that 12by area you described and you can get away with mixing 50/50 with water. But again the perfume of the MM is going to bomb the whole area and travel to others.

I learned the hard way you can't "rush" either the OSR and especially the MM. You can't substitute replacing the carpet and pad for what you described and the job is worth at least $150 per hour curb to curb. The only quick and dirty bandaid you could have tried and they totally needed to have sighed off was to have liberally sprayed MM on top, cover for half a day and then rapid dry and keep the air blasting on it. That might kill enough bio matter and flash off enough perfume to get through their precious party.

After messing with this long enough I hope you find the best recourse is to not assume the burden of solving this particular problem. It's the worst kind of shade tree fix our industry has come up with. So, you need to go all the way with the two different treatments or leave it alone if you want to "attemp" to meet the customers expectations and still get paid paid a fair wage for your efforts. Piss contamination is one if those balancing acts that ends up being ridiculous once you get to the other side.

 

[gimmeagig]

I guess the general consensus is that jobs like that are a nightmare. No real magic bullet from what I read so far. I don't feel so compelled to go into huge efforts for people who let their cat piss into the kids play room for a year, and then they have a party with guests and all of a sudden they get embarrassed and want me to fix it. I'm thinking once carpet had that much urine in it I would want to get rid of it ( and the cat too ) no matter what and start fresh.
At this point I'm not set up to pull carpet, take out the pad and then do the whole OSR thing.....I don't know if I want to. Plenty of jobs where i don't have to do that. I'd rather do two regular jobs that one mega piss job. I usually recommend replacement on situations like these and lower peoples expectations as much as I can, have them sign my "no guarantees" blurb on my invoice and all that.
Generally people are very understanding and nice about this and if they are in my face at the beginning of a job like that I'll just price it high enough that they will look elsewhere.
But if there is an effective way to deal with jobs like that, that makes sense, time and material wise, I sure want to learn how to do that.

 

[sam miller]

Did you mix OSR in a large bucket and dumped the entire solution HOT onto the carpet or did you just spray it down using your pump up sprayer?

Also did you use a water claw?

Thats what I was thinking! He said He used a pump sprayer, which If You follow the directions it says use the hottest water possible!

I let my truck mount heat up to 200 and then fill a hydroforce bottle add 3 to 4 scoops at the stain and let it flow like lava all over the carpet while moving the bottle with a towel.

Then work it in with a wand and extract with a claw! added odorcide on some nasty cat smell and if done correctly you can get down there and sniff and no odor!

I would think in a sprayer you couldnt get it hot enough and the pressure from the oxygen release would hurt it?

Hi Sam,
That's why I posted my question here. As opposed to some of you guys I'm still tapping in the dark on some of this stuff.
I do have a very solid hydroforce sprayer that has a pressure relief valve in it and can handle the heat. Yes, I got the water directly from my truckmount, probably around 180. I sprayed the areas and I also pushed the nozzle into the carpet. The reason why I didn't use a bucket was that one of the areas was on an upper level of the house and I didn't want to have my stuff pour through the ceiling. I'm not sure how much I can pour into a pad before I'm running the risk of doing that especially since I need to let the solution dwell for a while.

"fill a hydroforce bottle add 3 to 4 scoops at the stain and let it flow like lava all over the carpet while moving the bottle with a towel."
I may run the risk of sounding stupid but I'm trying to picture what you do there. So I have some questions:
First,what is a hydroforce bottle?
Is that something they make specifically for this?
How much liquid does it hold?
Weren't some of you saying that my 1 1/2 gal wasn't enough?
And what do you mean by adding 4 to 4 scoops at the stain.
Do you fill the Hydoforce bottle with just hot water and then add the scoops of OSR?
How do you get it to mix evenly with the water?
And the moving the bottle with a hot towel?

Can you dumb it down for a new guy like me? I just don't understand what you are telling me.
I will check out those pro's choice videos for sure, I didn't know they had them
As far as using a water claw,I have one but I confess, I have never used it. So much to learn for me still.
Thanks

Some people use a bucket I use the same hydroforce bottle You pre spray with I fill it up with hot water add the scoops quickly shake it with the scooper over the opening to seal it and put it down quick cause its hot.

Within seconds it will flow and foam out the bottle most if the timme it flows out 2/3 of the bottle the rest you dump on the stain.

I cant Imagine You never had foaming out the top and dripping even with the sprayer lid on the pressure will build and squirt out the little breater hole. if Your using really hot water.

the towel is used to move the bottle across the urine stain because a 180 degree wateer is hot and the towel acts as insulation the hydraforce bottle is small but the handle and towel make it easy to work with for me.

on a stain os your size ya you might have to repeat the process 3 to 4 times to completely cover usually when the pad is squishy let it sit then sub surface extract.

If it is on the second floor and the subfloor is wood then pull it up use odor barrier replace pad use plastic over new pad and treat carpet with osr or an enzyme.

Just remember its thier damage not yours!

goodluck.

 

[gimmeagig]

Hey thanks for explaining that to me more in detail. I got it now. I'm just wondering if I really want to do these kind of jobs.
This is what is my line of thinking right now. Remember, I'm still pretty new at this ( even though I did a lot of jobs last year and this year is looking good too) and I may be completely off base with my current way of looking at this.
I'm in an area where most people are kind of lower middle class, if that. Everybody's looking to get their house done for 100 bucks. I don't want to compete with those guys but they are out there.
So my typical price for a normal 3 bedroom is 189.- and I'm trying to push it up to break the 200.- barrier more and more these days.. If a place is really bad I'm closer to 249.-. So if I run into a severe urine problem and there was a need to go through the whole procedure of OSR waterclaw maybe even pull the carpet to check the subfloor, if there is hardwood underneath etc. what should I be charging for that? And would I be able to get it? And lets say I do it, would these people then become more conscientious about keeping their carpets clean and become loyal and regular customers or would I not hear from them again for another 5 years? What is more likely?
If I had that kind of job coming from a property management company, I don't think I could get enough for the job to justify the extra time and materials.
Tell me if I'm looking at this the right way or if I'm missing something.
Thanks

 

[tmdry]

Keep it simple.

It's not your fault the cat pissed all over the place, so don't let them make you accountable. Tell them how it is, you're only there to make things better, not to guarantee 100% odor removal, 95% of the people are fine w/ that.

Give them options

1. replace carpet, pad, clean subfloor, seal, new pad, carpet, pay me.
2. pull carpet, remove pad, clean subfloor, clean backing of carpet, new pad, etc etc.
3. sub surface extraction w/ water claw.
4. topical pet treatment only.

Price it enough for you to make $.

If you don't know how to do #1-#2, than do it for now. But still give them those options. Sometimes they may tell you they don't have any $ or make it look that way, but next month they'll replace the entire carpet and not call you for another 5 plus years since the carpet is now "new".

Never offer a guarantee for extreme pet odor jobs, especially if the cat is still in the home. Shoot for 80% improvement, a 2nd treatment may be needed. You get the idea.

 

[bonesheal]

Look at YouTube for videos of this work being done. I've seen several good ones. Pro's Choice and Jondon have useful videos on that up there, and I've seen other good ones that I can't remember the source for.

 

[Padden McFadden]

You need to try quat a lot my freind. I'm not saying it's the best urine odor remover there is, but I will say it's the best that I ever used,and can't imagine anything better, for urine. Ive done jobs were 20 minutes after I saoked a piss laden area , the smell was completly gone before I put my water claw to it.