Porty Shootout Results

Greenie

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Guys...you are gonna confuse the shit out of the new guys, let's get some stuff straight.

It doesn't matter if a centrifugal vacuum/blower is 2 stage or three stage, each "stage" is responsible for X amount of compression of atmosphere (lift) and X amount of airflow generated (cfm), the larger the armature and the greater the amperage avail. the better the vac motor is to compress those stages against resistance, and support that lift against resistance. The larger the actual blades are and the design of turbines themselves, the greater the amount of CFM is generated with each revolution of those blades, larger blades require more amperage as does high lift, it's really that simple.

So...in economy priced vacs you generally see either a high cfm rating at a given amperage OR a high lift rating, and it's easy to make a 2 stage spin up and provide high cfm without a load, but it takes the addiional staging of a three stage and additional amperage to generate the compression needed for higher waterlift, you can't cheat mother watts.

The most efficient and generally more expensive centrifugal vacs will have high CFM and higher lift, but you most defintely get what you pay for, and not all vacs are created equal.

It's real easy to have a flashy high number for marketing purposes, but truth is what good is a 120 cfm vac if it drops to 50 cfm under real world load?

There are limits to how many vacs you would bother stacking in a base unit, and that answer is heavily determined by the hose diameter and length you would be running with said unit, if you want to run over 100' with any elec. unit, you would be well placed to put your dollars into a stand alone inline vacuum booster closer to the wand, it'll give you BACK some of the airflow and lift you've lost via mother gravity and friction, you'll never hit pie in the sky numbers on 150'-200' of hose but the booster will give you BACK your vacuum that you started with, and at the end of the day, that is all we can ask.

It's the very reason the M-5 is only a 230cfm machine, and not a 400cfm machine, I don't need the marketing numbers, I need the performance of the 146" of water lift coupled with a real 200+ cfm at the wand, that is where the magic happens with a 2" glided wand, any porty Mfg. selling a high performance unit without a glided 2" wand is fully missing the boat.
 

Brett

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Feb 15, 2008
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174
Jim, I added a 3rd power cord to mine. Did you when you added your 3rd 3 stage? I picked up a Hydro Filter in line from Shawn at central to play with. With my sink baskets in, I ran 90' of 2" I can pick a 3 lb weight with the cuff with a popsicle stick under the cuff on one side to break the suction seal. My simple home way to test mods and vacuum cleaner suction. I added 50' 1 1/2 and couldn't pick the weight off the ground. Removed the sink baskets, put Hydro on and added 25' of 1/2 and I could still pick up the weight. 90' 2" and 75 1 1/2, 165' total and I could still pick the weight. I went in for dinner and didn't add any hose to see where it would stop picking the weight. I only have 90' of 2" so it limits my testing. Now I have no Idea what this test translates into for actual cleaning conditions, but it's simple and quick for certain test's I think.
 

Greenie

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Shows the sink drain baskets and screen door material inhibit vacuum quite a bit, like a dirty blower filter does on a TM.
 

jimmyb

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Mar 11, 2009
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Thanks Greenie, I think I'm maxed out with what I have right now, the recoil with 3 3stage vacs, along with the extra power booster "downstream" or closer to the wand. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

I still think a machine like what I have would have done very well with the testing though, just because it does have more of everything, meaning more stages of vacs.

And Brett no I didn't add another cord. It pulls right at 19 amps. So far I'm careful where I plug in, or I use a generator.
 

Greenie

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Jimmy, which 3 stage Lambs did you end up putting in your recoil?

Did you say earlier it was a 116 765?
 
Joined
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If you put dual three stage vac's on a single cord the best you can go with would be the 116565 (117", 99 cfm), they could operate at 19 or 20 amps.

The 116567 (137", 100 cfm) would blow breakers like crazy if two were put on one cord.

The motors in the M5, 1005 and the RL105 are the 148" and 115 cfm. That will really give you the most bang for the buck with out danger of blowing breakers. The vacuum booster motor does much better closer to the wand than at the base unit.
 

Ron Werner

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Ron Werner
The performance at the end of the hose with the vac booster on it was terrific. The feel of the airflow and pull was as good as any small tm. I think there was 150ft of 2" hose, with the booster hooked in at 100ft.

I just cleaned a condo today with a Ninja 150, 2 x 2stage vacs in Series.
I was wondering how 2 high performance 2stage vacs would perform in parallel. Would 2 of those blow a 15amp breaker if run together with a 250psi pump?

The 2nd cord on the Ninja was for the heater.
 

Larry Cobb

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Ron;

Your two-2 stage vacs will definitely perform better in series.
Their low lift (~85") is not enough for parallel.

As you move up in lift, the difference between series and parallel becomes very small.

The latest 3-stage hi-perf vac motors have lift over 140".

They can be used either way.

The two 2-stage vacs will draw ~14 amps.
The pump about 2 amps.

So, if you have a 20 amp circuit, it will run fine on one cord.

Larry
 

Greenie

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Larry Cobb said:
Ron;
Your two-2 stage vacs will definitely perform better in series.
Their low lift (~85") is not enough for parallel.

So...with Larry's statement, the question begs: What is the magic Lift number that parallel arrangement makes sense? 95"lift, 105"lift?

I will soon report back on a 4 vac unit All in air parallel, we'll see how she does on 50' of 2" hose and 100' of 2". My theory is she'll do very well on the single hose, and start to show it's weakness in Lift on 100', but these are high performance 2 stage, not the typical ninja 85 inchers Larry speaks of.
 

floorguy

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Brian Robison said:
lovin the Avatar Mr. Odin
Send me the link of the full size because when I squent it cuts off blood supply to Mr. Happy.


IMG_2531.jpg



Quote of the freaking month

hahahahahahahahahaahahahah
 

floorguy

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Mikey P said:
Who cares about the testing, I want to know if Ron scored on Sunday.


yup this needs to be answered.....

As his roomie, i was a bit scared Fri night :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

he was pretty pumped up to go....


sooooo Ron how was it???
 

Ron Werner

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Ron Werner
Ahem





So Greenie, if you're putting 4 vac motors, how many cords will that puppy need?
I still think the ideal porty will maximize its power buy minimize cords, 2 or 3 at max. 240V at the dryer or stove outlets isn't always available. ie may I pull your stove/dryer out from the wall maam? If you're not careful it could damage the floor, or you end up cleaning behind it creating more work before going to work.
































She was every bit the "Lady" I thought she was and we had a great time. Went to see Reagan's Museum, busier than a mall!!
I wasn't about to do anything to upset her, she's a black belt in Karate and is learning Wing Chun Kungfu. I'm a lover not a fighter :roll:
 

floorguy

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any good bye kiss???

any hey lets do this again???

any hey why dont you come up here and spend a few??
 
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floorguy said:
any good bye kiss???

any hey lets do this again???

any hey why dont you come up here and spend a few??


I bet Ron got farther then that. He vacuumed the carpet before four play. Isn't that right, you big stud you. You had her at Hello with that cowboy hat.
 

Brian L

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Rickie,

Would you be so kind as to post some pictures of the insides of your Recoil XPS? With all your blabbering about this machine being so old..........we could compare the insides and see what (if anything) is different or more up to date.
 

Greenie

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Oct 7, 2006
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Something tells me Ricky is wonderin' about now, how the machine got named the Cross-Threaded, He's looking at those little screws and wonderin' should I, or should I not unscrew them to take some pics?

I seem to recall back on the BlueBoard that Ed said the Recoil III with 250psi pump would run on two 15 amp circuits, is this still a truthful claim, and what about todays Recoil with 500 psi? Ricky, could you take one of your Navy amp meters and report back the start up amp draw on each cord, thanks.
 
G

Guest

Guest
wow your gonna ask an everyday cleaner to stop making money and break open his equipment to give you numbers when you as a distributor cant offer any numbers concerning performance claims of the products you sell ??

Not knocking you or attacking , just saying as a distributor its your business to provide numbers to back up up YOUR claims - I find it funny you would be trying to put Ricky on the spot when your the biggest culprit when it comes to posting actual real world numbers .
 
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James Cooper said:
wow your gonna ask an everyday cleaner to stop making money and break open his equipment to give you numbers when you as a distributor cant offer any numbers concerning performance claims of the products you sell ??

Not knocking you or attacking , just saying as a distributor its your business to provide numbers to back up up YOUR claims - I find it funny you would be trying to put Ricky on the spot when your the biggest culprit when it comes to posting actual real world numbers .


James, please refrain from hijacking and leave this thread alone.
 
G

Guest

Guest
This thread has been hijacked multiple times , mine just may be the latest .
 

Greenie

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James, I realize you are a dumb ass and don't know any better, but the amp draw on a power cord can be seen without taking anything apart, It's a very simple thing to accomplish, airflow and such numbers you are referring to are much more difficult, and frankly I don't much care if a vacuum upgrade improves the CFM or lift 15% or 50%, all that matters is the customer is happy with the increase without having to spend $25K on a new machine to accomplish the same thing, are you too dense to see the forest through the trees?

Now...back to the subject at hand, how does the 300 cfm recoil show on Ron's testing at the Mytee facility, and how many amps does a new machine pull per cord?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Greenie said:
James, I realize you are a dumb ass and don't know any better, but the amp draw on a power cord can be seen without taking anything apart, It's a very simple thing to accomplish, airflow and such numbers you are referring to are much more difficult, and frankly I don't much care if a vacuum upgrade improves the CFM or lift 15% or 50%, all that matters is the customer is happy with the increase without having to spend $25K on a new machine to accomplish the same thing, are you too dense to see the forest through the trees?

Now...back to the subject at hand, how does the 300 cfm recoil show on Ron's testing at the Mytee facility, and how many amps does a new machine pull per cord?


funny thing , its difficult to do the testing but easy to make the performance claims . Just how do you come up with this shit ??

I suppose there must be something more to your claims than just saying you feel a " thump "? Just how do you surmise the performance claims of your 2.5 hose ?? Or your kunkle valve ? Or the claims that you make regarding any of your stuff you peddle ??

Tell you what , I guess I'll do your 2.5 testing vs. 4 to the door for you and report back to everyone how much difference is between the two . And I wont have any problems with you useing the data - if other words , you really should retire the "thump ", its kinda rediculous , dont you think ??
 

Greenie

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that is what your pussy is aching over, the "thump" comment?
lol you silly little man.
Do your Bristor type testing however you want, most of my customers would still rather pull a single 2.5 than 100' of 2" x 2.
Or are they a little slow down there in GA?

Sometimes you just have to listen to the real life NON-BDCC and their real life experiences:
http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26174
 
G

Guest

Guest
Greenie said:
that is what your pussy is aching over, the "thump" comment?
lol you silly little man.
Do your Bristor type testing however you want, most of my customers would still rather pull a single 2.5 than 100' of 2" x 2.
Or are they a little slow down there in GA?

you been drinking ?? you should really lay off the bottle , Lisa aint around any more to save you from yourself .

Any testing Joe Bristor has done is more than you ever will . Ha , love the " thump ."
 

Bob Foster

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Oct 8, 2006
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Cooper there is nobody on this board that has his head farther up his ass that you.

I recommend you go get this book

head-up-ass-dummies.jpg
 

Mikey P

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So Cooper must think I am lying when I related my experiences with 42TD and 2.5.

From my stock two port V I went to 42TD which was a Big, real big step up in more suck atw. DO I have numbers? Hell no!
How do I know it was better? Because even a smart tree huggin Californian like myself cant tell when it becomes harder to push/pull a wand and the noise increases from the end of it.

Now with that same great scientific knowledge to learn from I can cross my heart and swear on my family's lives that when I went from 42TD to 2.5 off a 3 port Vanifold the boost in push/pull and the absolute screaming nightmare of a banshee's atomic fart coming from the wand was even more out of control. Way more.

But in James view of the world ,which is actually from inside Nick's putrid bowels and not his own, I am lying in order to make Greenie (the real owner of this Board) more money.


I have to admit, I am seriously disappointed in Cooper.
I think it was 4 days ago that Rob Allen talked about his "good friend Evan Kessler".

Hey Cooper, be prepared for the day when Rob comes to visit your home and he leaves a big turd on your family room sofa just like he did Evan's.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Mikey P said:
So Cooper must think I am lying when I related my experiences with 42TD and 2.5.

From my stock two port V I went to 42TD which was a Big, real big step up in more suck atw. DO I have numbers? Hell no!
How do I know it was better? Because even a smart tree huggin Californian like myself cant tell when it becomes harder to push/pull a wand and the noise increases from the end of it.

Now with that same great scientific knowledge to learn from I can cross my heart and swear on my family's lives that when I went from 42TD to 2.5 off a 3 port Vanifold the boost in push/pull and the absolute screaming nightmare of a banshee's atomic fart coming from the wand was even more out of control. Way more.

But in James view of the world ,which is actually from inside Nick's putrid bowels and not his own, I am lying in order to make Greenie (the real owner of this Board) more money.


I have to admit, I am seriously disappointed in Cooper.
I think it was 4 days ago that Rob Allen talked about his "good friend Evan Kessler".

Hey Cooper, be prepared for the day when Rob comes to visit your home and he leaves a big turd on your family room sofa just like he did Evan's.

Are you religious Mike ? Do you believe in God , or aliens , or the easter Bunny ?? What do you beleive in ??
 

Mikey P

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I believe in not being a damn hypocrite.


and I dont have a religious bone in my body.



But on the third day of SFS when my JW wife found out that your buddy calls himself a JW she was absolutely shocked.
Any man who makes his wife cut up his dinner into bite sized pieces in front of a group of people and then gloats about how much control he has over here is a down right pos in most people's eyes.


Lots, if not all of the JW in this industry are down right disgusted by how your leader is representing his faith.
 
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