Post 2005 PTO or CDS Units without blower exhaust?

[Dale]

Hi Guys:

I had a nice conversation with a popular TM engineer. And according to him, that when GM changed their engines to run coolant "reverse flow" that it was the golden bullet to the van run TM, and not the blower heat exchangers. He said that it alone increased these type units solution temps about 20 degrees more. And that it was just a coincidence that it was about the same time that they came out with blower exhaust heaters. And that these are not producing what we think they are simply because of the mentioned GM change.

I wondering if anybody has a van mount unit that DOES NOT have blower heat, in order to compare the two? And if this is a fact, has anybody tried to reverse the coolant flow on an older GM unit?

Thx,
Dale

 

[Greenie]

splain the reverse flow to me real slow, like I'm a 5 yr. old, there are a couple other 5 yr. olds here as well, might as well get everyone on the same level.

 

[Dale]

Hi Guys:

Race cars guys have been doing it for years, and GM just started recently. Revere flow is where the coolant is flowed through the engine and exits the bottom instead of the top. And of course the TM's are then attached in like.

I don't know exactly when GM started it, but I was told that it was when they dropped the 5.7L. But if it really helps, race car guys have the know how to convert them. I'm just not wanting to spend money on a trial until I've done all the research.

Thx,
Dale

 

[Dale]

Hi Guys:

I'm back, before this post leaves the page....

Please, I am wondering, if anybody has a newer van mount that DOES NOT have exhaust heat on it, that can compare heat with a pre 2005 mount?

Thx,
Dale

 

[Matt King]

Wrong.......... The LT1 350 (1992-1997) is the only production Chevrolet V8 to use the reverse flow cooling. It was used in the Corvette and Camaro. That motor wasn't even used in vans. The previous L98 long block was. The coolant is flowed through the heads first and then through the block. As for a truckmount (pto) application this means Zero,zip,nada.... The temperature of the engine still remains the same. You just have cooler intake runners for the fuel/air mixture to flow through. This lets you run a little higher compression and timing advancement without detonation. I'll add, you can't change the flow of your coolant. Your passages are designed and cast into the block and heads. The 5.7 designation was never dropped until 2002 when the LS1 (which replaced the LT1) was further redesigned (although minimally) to become the LS2 and LQ9-truck motor.

 

[Greenie]

damn TM engineers.

 

[Goldenboy]

Matt, Actually you are missing a few important keys here. Let me explain:
The very crux of what you are looking for is patented. The patent has a total of 156 claims regarding the capture of exhaust heat from the same engine that powers both the vehicle that transports the machine to jobsites AND the carpet cleaning machine itself. This systen provides 250 degree temps single wand, and 230 degree temps dual wand. (70 degree ambient temperature, 400 psi # 6 total opening per wand, ATM)

It involves the concept of an intermediate thermal transfer liquid.

The exhaust heat from the truck is transferred to a special type of high temperature liquid which is then transferred to a heat exchanger on the machine.

The first stage of heat is a pre-heat stage only, and is done like any other direct drive machine. It transfers glycol heat from the water jacket of the engine to the water used for carpet cleaning.

On the second (and final stage) the heat exchanger is actually on the outside of the truck. The exchange of energy under the truck is hot exhaust gas to Xentherm (intermediate thermal transfer liquid), and the exchange of energy at the carpet cleaning machine is Xentherm to water.

The patent descibes the utilizization of a thermocoupler to activate an automatic exhaust diversion system. Dale Collins tells me that he thinks this has done before.

If anyone knows of a machine that has used automatic exhaust diversion before I would be very interested. This is one point I am not sure of, but using an intermediate thermal transfer liquid I know is definitely a first.

Automatic exhaust diversion via thermocoupler sensing devices has become a mainstay in the last two years.

Several Kerosene fans have indicated that this system produces temps as high or in some cases higher heat.

Consistency is also a tremedous benefit of using intermediate thermal transfer liquid. Liquid to liquid transfer is always more controllable and consistent.

Golden Boy

 

[Matt King]

ROLMAO! That was classic Waldo..... you left out the part about the new thermal-dynamic flux capacitor though.

 

[Dale]

Hi Matt:

Have you seen where the thermostat mounts in the new GM V-8's? I have not, but the above mentioned engineer tells me it is off the bottom of the block. Any truth in that?

Thx,
Dale

 

[Matt King]

Yes, I have a new Chevy Express. It's set up the same way as my Camaro was. Thermostats on the LS1 and LS2 designs are not in the engine block but in the water pump. They used to set inside the intake up front. Basically they changed the thermostat position from 'before' the radiator to 'after' the radiator. This keeps the coolant entering the thermostat on the cool end helping to prevent oscillation of the thermostat and keeping the engine temperature more stable. That has nothing to do with the casting of internal coolant passages though.-- I forgot to answer your temperature question. I had a 2000 Chevy w/a Steam Genie pto. That van had the old 350. My new Van has the 6.0 also w/a Steam Genie pto in it. With the coolant exchangers only both machines ran about the same temps. 180-200 degrees depending on how hot it is outside. To go higher you need a post heater of some sort. I've tried several different blower exchangers and would get anywhere from a 15-50 degree temp rise w/06 jetting@400 psi. A nice LP post heater would be preferable offering the option of higher water flow and adding no back pressure to the blower. A blower exchanger will do the trick though if you don't like LP.

 

[Farenheit251]

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway....why doesn't anyone use the engine exhaust as a post heater?

 

[Jay D]

Way too long Xplanations for A D D types,

 

[Mike Draper]

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway....why doesn't anyone use the engine exhaust as a post heater?

Many, if not most slide-ins use exhaust as a post heat. I did in my PTO, but it was complicated and ran to hot or to cold depending on the season. I just changed over to a blower hx. It's simple and it works.

 

[Greenie]

Unless you do an AT style "in the van" raised HX, you will have what Mike describes, complications...it would need a diverter to not boil the water to steam while driving to the job, and if you diverted the exhaust while driving, then you have issues with it freezing in winter (not a problem in FL I know), plus in cold weather regions having 1-2 gal of water outside the truck may or may not give much heat rise, where it would be wicked hot on a 100 degree summer day, it's gonna fluctuate a lot. We won't go into the risk of bringing engine exhaust into the van passenger compartment....this is all the reasons a Vortex style box truck was the chosen platform for this.

Blower HX do indeed work.