Power Clean's Genesis DXT in Sprinter Vs Vortex

[vegijohn]

I have a 2004 Vortex and I do Love it But----Now I have a 2008 Genesis DXT in a 2008 3500 Sprinter w/107" WB. I think I have more Bragging rights than Vortex owners because:

The Sprinter is a "dodge" made by Mercedes Benz.
The Sprinter is more enjoyable to drive.
The Sprinter gets better fuel economy.
Genesis has more CFM at the wand--- The carpets are drying faster-- even when it is raining outside!
Genesis has hotter water faster and the water temperature doesn't drop when you fill the tank.
Genesis gets better fuel economy.
Genesis is quieter.
This decked out complete system is still under 10000 lbs so no need to stop at weight stations.
Power Clean has thought of so many details that make this machine the bomb.

Ok, the Vortex is easier to park and makes tighter U-turns.
For safety reasons I do not recommend the Genesis DXT in anything smaller than the Sprinter 3500.

Happy Thanksgiving
John Stewart

 

[Pmatte]

Thanks for the info!I've been looking at that set-up.
Patrick

 

[Mountain View Carpet Care]

The Lynch mob will be here soon.

 

[Mikey P]

Lets be honest here John..
Many here have seen your truck.
Why don't you tell everyone here about how you run your Vortex at only 1000 rpms to keep the noise down so you can work in the city with out getting your ass kicked from the street people..

It's obvious you never crank it up because you have 3 feet of pillows and blankys on top of the blower (along with 18 rolls of duct tape around your silencer) to quite it down even more.

If you ever ran that V @ 1700 rpms like you're suppose to, you'd find those missing CFMs and missing heat.
But all those blankets would go up in flames due to them also being on top of the Heat Exchanger.


You made SOME valid points but comparing actual performance lost you almost as much credibility as your ACE story.

 

[hogjowl]

I can see someone who owns a Vortex not replacing it with another V when the times comes to purchase a second rig. The size of a V makes it cumbersome in some situations, and the routine maintenance on it is a bit more than one expects when he's coming from a slide-in background. However, I can't see someone purchasing anything else because of performance issues.

And, I certainly can't understand someone opting for a Sprinter Van. That thing is worse than a Vortex.

Call me when the honeymoon is over.

 

[Goldenboy]

Are you the guy who had his blower wrapped with a sleeping bag? How many hours on the V? How many hours on the Genesis?


Golden Boy

 

[vegijohn]

I now run my vortex at 1500 rpms. I think somewhere in the manual it says not to run it above 1600 rpms. the blanket is gone and replaced with 6 inch sound proofing. The silencer is wrapped with 1 inch Hi temp soundproofing. the heat exchangers are not wrapped.

The Sprinter rides like a car not a semi. Really check out the Sprinter it is a really nice set up.

Granted my vortex is old and has about 4500 hours on it and the genesis only 35 hours.
The vortex is my wife and the genesis like a new younger mistress which is more fun to ride. My workers would rather ride my "mistress" then my "wife".
Remember I have the Vortex and the Genesis so I am better equipped to compare the two then someone who only has the Vortex.
You are welcome to come to San Francisco to check it out yourself.
I will keep you all informed should this love affair end.

John Stewart

 

[adamh]

I am glad you like your new rig John.

Being a bloomin salesman and someone that was involved with BLUELine in the design of the new Vortex 8000Q I would like to explain a few of the things we did with the new V over the 04 you have.

The 09 has an added blower HX that your 04 does not have. This gives us faster heat and lots more of it. The engine coolant HX holds 3 times more coolant. This increased
fluid amount gives the much bigger HXs more time to heat the water. Thus the water gets hotter faster with more BTUs. No need to preheat the water in the tank.

The 04’s vacuum is greatly reduced because of restrictions in the ball valves and filters.
BLUEline fixed this by removing those ball valves that reduced the 2” vac hose to 1.5” and we went 5” straight into a filter box with 2.5” outlets. The 04’s can have their vac greatly increased by taking those ball valves out and using Greenies Vanafold.

The Isuzu gets better gas mileage with its 6 speed transmission and 30 more Horse Power. The 2009 Isuzu rides like a nice pick up. The UD drives like a cattle wagon.

We have done many things to the 8000Q and it is very quiet. That way you can actually run it at the operating speed you need to get heat without pissing off the neighbors. 1700 RPMs. We have a nice blower housing so you can take your sleeping bags out of the truck and go camping.

The truck and complete system is under 10,500 LBS and you do not have to stop at any weight stations. I have driven a V thousands of miles in more than 26 states and never stopped at one. 10,500 and under you don’t have to. Even in CA.

New panel. You can actually read the Xentherm temp. Push button RPM gages etc.

Almost twice the waste tank capacity and 30 gallons bigger fresh.

I am glad you like your new truck and I hope it makes you millions. They do look sharp.

 

[Dolly Llama]

The truck and complete system is under 10,500 LBS and you do not have to stop at any weight stations.

Adam, help me out with this one.
I thought the requirements for stopping in weight stations were based on a trucks GVW capacity regardless whether it was empty or full or somewhere in between

what's the GVW on the new V chassis?

thanks

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

Did you ever get your money back from ACE.

You made quite the stink here over that debacle so I think it would be nice to hear what happened.

 

[adamh]

Yes Meat you are right. The GVW with full tanks (water and fuel ) is under 10,500. You do not and have never had to stop at the weight stations.

 

[-JB-]

Did you ever get your money back from ACE.

You made quite the stink here over that debacle so I think it would be nice to hear what happened.


Report this post

 

[FB7777]

The GVW on the GMC 4500 that Butler uses is 14,500lbs... it is the same on the Isuzu isn't it?

Stopping at weigh stations wouldn't be a deciding factor for me, but I believe MeAt is right on this one Adam.

 

[Larry B]

The truck and complete system is under 10,500 LBS and you do not have to stop at any weight stations.

Adam, help me out with this one.
I thought the requirements for stopping in weight stations were based on a trucks GVW capacity regardless whether it was empty or full or somewhere in between

what's the GVW on the new V chassis?

thanks

..L.T.A.

Larry you are correct on this.

He may drive by scales but its only because they didn't notice him or didn't want to chase the little truck down. Just about every state had a different weight limit on when you must scale your truck. There are states that the weight laws would require a U-Haul or motor home to come across the scale. In Illinois a bob tail semi (No Trailer) would be required to scale (most don't) but at the same time the scale master could have them chased down and fined for doing a drive by on the scale.




This is nothing Against Adam but anyone getting a larger than normal van should check their state laws before you go driving by scales. The fines for running a scale house can be in the $10,000.00 area.

 

[Larry B]

Another good thing about the Sprinter van is since so many commercial companies use them. If you have problems with the van Dodge dealerships and most commercial truck centers have parts and can repair them without having to wait on parts to be ordered.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Yes Meat you are right. The GVW with full tanks (water and fuel ) is under 10,500. You do not and have never had to stop at the weight stations.

Thanks Adam.
I know many roll right past the weigh stations without incident.
However, i suspect that at least in "some" of those 26 states you rolled thru, you were in violation of state DOT regs.
(they vary from state to state)
I "think" in Ohio it's 14,500 and up. Doesn't matter if it's empty or full, if the GVW "rating" (not actual wt) is 14.5, you "supposed" to pull in.



not a big deal to me and I'm really not trying to argue with you, cause you're one of the genuine "good guys" in my book.
Just that some dudes are "by the book" kind of peeps and the info of "not" needing to stop at weight stations may or may not apply depending on their state regs


..L.T.A.

 

[Walt]

Please note: I am not comparing it to a current model Vortex or AT.I am still a huge fan of the platform. I am only offering my opinion because I have received numerous PM's regarding the change I made.

My Vortex was a 2004 built by FMI in Portland Oregon. I received it new in April of 2005. As a start up company, I put over 2800 hours on it by Sept of 2008. I maintained it at the factory in Portland. I also made every upgrade Greenie could think up - (2.5/manifold/18 inches of lift) It was an awesome machine which never once let me down. Never was I unable to complete a job. However, I did have several issue with the gauges. They all failed after 3 years. Since they no longer offered the older style gauges (and trust me I spent about 6 months trying to hunt them down) the new gauges required complete rewiring of the panel. The cost exceeded 2k.

Though, I really liked my 2004 Vortex, I prefer the DXT in many ways. On a sheer performance level the DXT is comparable to a 2004 V (in perfect working order) in heat and vac. This includes dual wanding. As a matter fact I might even give the DXT a slight nudge in dual wand territory.
A major plus to the DXT

Less noise related stress. I do a lot of work in the city and in town homes. The 2004 model V was very loud (even with the exhaust mods). It just had a deep rumble that couldn't be quieted. In town homes, I felt like a jerk even in single wand mode. I couldn't wait to be done. The DXT is exceptionally quiet, especially in single wand mode. I can and have cleaned a town home at 8pm with out a complaint (or feeling like a jerk)

Other DXT pluses:

The DXT/Sprinter is more fuel efficient. The Sprinter Van gets 16-17 mpg (combined city highway) with a ton of gear and 160 gallons of water. My V with a ton of gear and 125 gal of water got between 9-11 mpg (combined). My V burned about 1.5 gal per hour in single wand mode and 2(ish) in dual. The DXT does 1.2 per hour in single and 1.5(ish) in dual.

The DXT heats up in 10 minutes to full heat (even in cold weather)

The Sprinter platform is more comfortable. Smooth ride, and good handling. Easier to park and maneuver on narrow city streets (like here in Portland). Better sound system.

DXT custom install has a place for everything. Organization junkies dream.

AIRBAGS


2004 Vortex pluses:

The V will hold a little more gear and hose.
Signs are easier to figure out since it's a giant rectangle.
Tighter turning radius.
Better lit inside box
Few painted parts
aluminum flooring - who cares if you spill something.
And let's be honest - It has the name Vortex.

I have had the DXT for 3 months and have 220 hours on the machine. So far I have had a few minor problems. The exhaust hose going into the heat exchanger had a leak in it that required welding - about a 30 min fix at the dealer. The thermal relief valve in the water box was prematurely leaking water into the waste tank - a ten minute fix at the dealer. And one loose wire that caused the occasional "mystery" shut down every now and again.

That's it. I'll keep you posted if you are interested.

 

[adamh]

You are correct the truck is 14,500. It doesn't weigh that, but could be maxxed out with that load.

Every person that has purchased a truck from us is told to check their state regs. A few have taken it down to get it weighed and every time they are told not to worry about the scales. ( But I have not sold one in every state.)

For the record I think you should check with your state and take it down to get weighed. I have never heard of any Vortex owner having to do it. We had a guy in CA. that was doing it but when he checked on it with the State Police they said he did not need to.

Box truck owners should look into their state regs as well.

 

[cu]

working in sf in the biggest pain in the ass (gay or stright) , i can understand john preffering to work out of the sprinter in the city(well that city anyway)
i dont know his dxt ,never used one. but i know my sprinter and judson and dont know why i would want to get a v

the van gets great mpg, drives like a marcedes, carrys everything i need to do any type of job , and is a big bilboard
the tm does everything i need it to do and never lets me down . i could be worng but i dont think i could do a better job with a v
i dont run two wands, dont do the big comm jobs, most of me hose runs are under 250 ft
i did a restaurant on wed night carpet and tile ( first restaurant with the judson, first restaurant in years)
it came out great ,owner gave me a $40 tip ( best part was it was in mikeys service area)

the judson has 2.5 plumbing ,the heat 210 atm ,gg wand, and super simple to service, if i need super heat i can alway hook up a propane heater in line
i know theres a place for a v ..but i ,ll stick with my sprinter and a judson

 

[vegijohn]

hey John did you ever get anything out of A C E?

Yeah! -- Two things: A $23,000 education. And a scorned customer can put you out of business---- Always Do the Right Thing.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Is it just me or are some a little oversensitive about a slide in being compared to a V on performance? I don't have either unit so I am not offering an opinion as to the comparison. Just noting my perception of some concern from the V crowd. :|

 

[Larry B]

Is it just me or are some a little oversensitive about a slide in being compared to a V on performance? I don't have either unit so I am not offering an opinion as to the comparison. Just noting my perception of some concern from the V crowd. :|

Rex

Ya think it has anything to do with 98K

 

[Rex Tyus]

[quote="Rex Tyus":9kpublq2]Is it just me or are some a little oversensitive about a slide in being compared to a V on performance? I don't have either unit so I am not offering an opinion as to the comparison. Just noting my perception of some concern from the V crowd. :|

Rex

Ya think it has anything to do with 98K

[/quote:9kpublq2]

:shock:

 

[vegijohn]

did your new power clean come with sleeping bags and pink insulation and duct tape?
or were those up grades just for Vortex?

LOL You guys are never going to stop giving me a hard time about the blankets are you. I was getting a lot of complaints about the noise and had to do SOMETHING to solve the problem. I Do Not recommend covering a blower with a blanket---- Its a fire hazard and I just got lucky a fire didn't happen.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Most blankets are flame retardant now anyway. Being the redneck that I am I think it sounds like a pretty good insulator.

 

[hogjowl]

Rex is not authorized to speak for ALL rednecks.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Rex is not authorized to speak for ALL rednecks.

Only the REAL ones.

 

[TimP]

I personally can't wait until I can get out of my CDS and into a DXT PowerClean. There is no way I can afford a new Vortex or AT. And I don't really want a used one and I don't like the TM running of an auto transmission idea. I can get a used box or sprinter and put the DXT in and it will serve my purpose for when I need to dual wand. And it will probably cost what my TM cost new if but 5-10 grand more at the very very most the way I see it. Even if you get the custom DXT with a new sprinter you're looking at 20 grand less than a vortex. And I think even less than an AT but AT don't list their prices.

 

[Larry B]

Anyone have a MSRP or starting price on DXT / Sprinter ?

Ballpark I don't want to know what someone paid just the factory asking price would be nice.

 

[adamh]

This includes dual wanding. As a matter fact I might even give the DXT a slight nudge in dual wand territory.
A major plus to the DXT

You did sell your old V to a guy in my area right? Give him my phone number so we can pull those restrictive elbows and vac shut off valves out. We will put a Vanafold on it. I bet we get 30-35% more suck. That 6008 blower does no good restriced like it was. With the upgraded vac system he will be amazed. Really amazed in dual wand!