Restoration prices

[scottpeterson83]

What is everyone up to charging for restoration? Do you charge Xactimate or not?

We do not use Xactimate and charge good money for restoration and get it all day long. We have built a network of restoration contractors in our area that are all charging the same prices for restoration and dont see why everyone cant get these prices.
For each piece of equipment:
Air scrubber- $165/day
Dehu- $145/day for LGR
Air mover- $30/day

$185 per dump run
$85 per man hour for labor
20% add on for ALL professional services and supplies.

Whats your feedback?

 

[dealtimeman]

I thought that coulD be portrayed to be illegal.

 

[scottpeterson83]

Whats illegal?

 

[scottpeterson83]

Let me ask you this.

Do MOST carpet cleaners find out what their competitors charge and base their price around that?
I would say yes and most restoration contractors do the same.

Xactimate prices are built by mainly the preferred vendors sending in their estimates on what they would charge. These companies give the insurance companies cheaper rates in return of volume. In my eyes this is a conflict of interests. They go into the job with the insurance companies best interests in mind. Will they pull that cabinet that should be pulled when they could possibly get away with drying it in place? Do they truly fight for their customer or do they side with the insurance company so they continue to get all that work?

What is wrong with restoration companies that dont charge Xactimate and network off of each other and pool resources with each other all coming up with what they see to be fair prices or usual and customary in this field? No one is forcing anybody to use certain prices but after we talked about what we charge and why some people come up on price and some people dont. I believe my prices are fair and my customer is always taken care of and I always get paid from the insurance companies so they must see my prices as fair as well.

So what is illegal about networking with other companies. We all do it already otherwise sites like this wouldnt exist.

 

[topnotchman]

http://www.jondon.com/catalog/advanced_ ... s=bluebook



just get yourself this and that gives you a good starting place to base YOUR prices on.

 

[tmdry]

I always get paid from the insurance companies so they must see my prices as fair as well.

If that is your entire price list that you posted above, it is clear to why the insurance companies will pay your price...only the people that know how to use Xactimate (including adjusters) will see this, and pay your price since you think you are charging a fair price but you're actually saving the insurance co. $. Again, I am basing this off your price list that you posted on your first post. If that is in fact your entire price list breakdown than the guys getting less per rental (air scrubbers, dehus, fans) using Xactimate will actually make much more once all line items have been entered.

 

[scottpeterson83]

I get 20% add on for supplies and professional services. This includes filters for air scrubbers, dehus, vapor tek cartridges, bags, towels, etc. The hourly we charge is about $40-50 higher than what Xactimate gives us in this area. I havent looked at Xactimate that much but you caught my interests. Thank you

 

[SMRBAP]

What he is getting at with insurers paying your prices is right, they love your price method and will pay it all day because you are undercharging - you are slicing your own throat.

I had 2 guys pull a laminate floor in a kitchen and dining area after hours:
Your pricing = $340
What I got paid - $1150

Same job got paid:
$198 service call fee (rang the doorbell)
$340 dumpster that I used maybe 1/3 of
$137 for an extraction that took the total of 15 minutes (on hard surface)
$90 for antimicrobial application, (took 15 minutes)
$380 to d/r range, dishwasher, sink, disposal
20% on the total of the plumbers bill to cap the lines
And base service charges of $294

Mitigation side took 2 guys 4 hours day 1, 1 guy 6 hours day 2, then 1 hr monitoring per day for 3 final days days, last day an extra hour to pull gear.

18 total man hours (+ maybe 2 administratively) - final invoice $5200.00
$260/man hour

And on the rebuild I'll get whats called O&P - because there will be more than 3 trades on the rebuild, as the GC I'll fetch an extra 20%.

Today we went to an extremely small loss that was dry to complete the rebuild, on the loss we punched 4 holes for wall cavity drying, that was the entire rebuild.

The rebuild today was patching 4 holes, then painting them. $375 drywall minimum, $175 paint minimum, then another $91 in base service charges - $641.00. Using 15 minute quickset, fill, skim, sand, paint - took 3 hours counting drive time to and from and I might have used $5 in materials.... maybe, (custy had own paint).

I'll do all your Xactimate scopes and quotes for 30% of all the extra money you make

 

[tmdry]

Well said Anthony.

I love those min on rebuilds too.

Travelers pays 25% on O&P, an adjuster was nice enough to tell me that once. 8)

 

[Hoody]

Anyone ever notice on the jobs where you actually have a lot of man hours invested its harder to get paid for, but for examples like those given where your profit margin is actually higher vs amount of man hours its easier ? For that reason alone I always try to bill things in units vs hours.

 

[SMRBAP]

More often than not Steven, that is accurate - the most profitable jobs for us seem to be dry-outs in the $5000-8000 range excluding all other variables.

I'll have a very accurate picture this year as I am separating cc'ing revenues-costs=margins from the resty side for the first time. It won't be 100% accurate because I don't have dedicated employees, vans, and equipment to one vs. the other, but it will be darn close.

 

[steve g]

there is no way you can justify as much money without using xactimate. basically if you can find a line item for it and you did it, that is all you need to justify it. there are just so many with xactimate. honestly if a guy KNOWS what they are doing with xactimate and I do, often times even I think its very possible to be over paid on alot of jobs. there are things in the program that are not profitable, drywall is one of them. I can't make money doing it, but I do make lots of money painting and doing other things so its a wash in the end. if a customer just wants drywall I will not do it.

those who are using blue books and all this other bullshit simply don't understand the power of xactimate when its put to its potential, BTW if you do learn xactimate to its potential and have some people skills restoration companies pay out big for that, around here a good estimator starts at 80k/year and goes up to 150k salary. they are also typically off by 5pm and home with their families on weekends too. the reason they get paid so much is a few extra clicks can mean tons of money on a loss. I once bid out a smoke damage against the largest restoration company in town. our scopes were almost identical, in fact it was amazing how similar we both saw the job, BUT mine was 4 grand more. his was 12k mine was 16k, one friggen job the left 4 grand on the table. and that was with me spending like 15 minutes slamming it together. if I was in full massage mode with the intent of actually doing the job, I could have pulled another 2 grand out of it. thats 6 grand one job now tell me I don't deserve 150k/year

 

[Ed]

What Steve said is correct. Many people learn the basics of Xact and leave it at that. There are profit line items and there are loser line items. Many line items, especially in the CLN category have associated line items that don't get charged for. For instance, CLN DOR is for cleaning the door panel, 1 side. In our area that brings $4.13 each. The hardware is another $3.83 and the opening is another 7.64. That's a total of 15.60. Almost 4x's the CLN DOR rate. You'd be shocked at how many people charge just for the door panel itself. Walls are another thing. We charge for the wall, the trim, the outlet/light switches, etc. It adds up.

Personally, I think that Xact is designed that way. Learn the program and read the notes associated with certain line items. They will usually tell you what related services can be charged for. You are definitely not getting your monies worth if you are not learning and utilizing the program to it's fullest.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Ed I agree with you and Steve but getting the most out Xactimate still doesn't mean you will win the bid. In fact in our town it pretty much means you won't with at least one insurance company.

American Family in this area takes 3-bids on FDR work and the lowest bid gets it. The home or business owner has the choice to use any of the 3-bidders but Amfam will only pay what the lowest bidder quoted. The homeowner must pay any over the lowest bidder.

 

[Hoody]

What Steve and Ed is so true, that is why I like the macros function in Xactimate, it saves a lot of time, and helps you to not forget the small things. However as Richard has pointed out its important to know how to bid, still remain profitable, but still still get the work. With FDR I've found its much easier than WDR.

For instance, on hard surfaces like concrete and cat 3 water, a lot of adjusters only want to pay the line item price for cleaning concrete, rather than cat 3 extraction. How do you guys handle cat 3 w/ concrete subfloor? Do you extract, clean, apply a biocide, and dry, or do you extract, clean, biocide, dry, and clean again because contaminates can surface after the drying process?

 

[steve g]

What Steve and Ed is so true, that is why I like the macros function in Xactimate, it saves a lot of time, and helps you to not forget the small things. However as Richard has pointed out its important to know how to bid, still remain profitable, but still still get the work. With FDR I've found its much easier than WDR.

For instance, on hard surfaces like concrete and cat 3 water, a lot of adjusters only want to pay the line item price for cleaning concrete, rather than cat 3 extraction. How do you guys handle cat 3 w/ concrete subfloor? Do you extract, clean, apply a biocide, and dry, or do you extract, clean, biocide, dry, and clean again because contaminates can surface after the drying process?

CAT 3 is one where xactimate is lacking, there is NO line item for pressure washing and extracting, which are both needed at the same time on a sewer. I just make up my own price for that.

chavez, you do know am fam can't dictate to the customer who gets the job, yeah they do imply that and they wield a big stick, but they can't force them to. sometimes I have been known to purposely leave off things in those situations with the clear understanding via a opening statement, verbally to the customer and the insurance that if we encounter things not on there I have the right to raise the price.

I only enter full xactimate message mode once we have the job, or normally ideally when its already been completed.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Steve they let the customer chose.....it just has to be the lowest price or the policy holder pays the difference. We don't even bid on their work anymore, not much point.

No homeowner is coming out of pocket just for us, well a few have but there were circumstances involved.

 

[Ed]

Ed I agree with you and Steve but getting the most out Xactimate still doesn't mean you will win the bid. In fact in our town it pretty much means you won't with at least one insurance company.

American Family in this area takes 3-bids on FDR work and the lowest bid gets it. The home or business owner has the choice to use any of the 3-bidders but Amfam will only pay what the lowest bidder quoted. The homeowner must pay any over the lowest bidder.

Yeah, I agree with you when it comes to bidding, which luckily, we don't have to do very often. What American Family is doing is not legal, but I know you know that. That also doesn't mean it's going to stop them from doing it. I haven't run into that here in upstate NY. It sucks some of the games that we have to play with adjusters and insurance companies sometimes, but it is the nature of the business.

 

[SMRBAP]

Actually depends on the state - in IN it is perfectly legal (directly from the IN insurance oversight dept to my ear). As long as the policy states the terms, it's fine. The insured can choose whoever they want, if they want to pay the difference.

Erie is doing the exact same thing - and their pricing that they state they can get and base from is RIDICULOUS. In fact, if you don't own equipment, you won't make any money at all, they are paying $63.22/day for XL dehu's. $17.44 for AM's, so on a smaller dryout with 1/8 for 4 days, you'd make $84.40 if you had to rent equipment to place.

Wonder how the insurers would react, if nationally restorers took a stand against the reverse price fixing and put a disclaimer in their ad's:

All insurers accepted*
*except: Erie, or whichever,