ripples in carpet after cleaning - customer freakin' out.

richard

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Richard Weedman
Had this happen twice in the last 4 weeks. Clean the carpeting 4 weeks ago like I have for the last 12 years and the (new) customer calls me stating I made the carpet buckle. I went back to inspect and sure enough it had a ripple. It had been several days between the time I cleaned and her call so it had time to relax flat but didn't. I paid a friend to stretch it. Today I did a job and the lady called stating her carpet is dry but has rippled in one room. She just had it stretched days before. First time dealing with this issue.
Anyone else experience this?
 

C&S

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Scott
turn your heat down? Jim Pemberton would be a good guy to ask he is here on the board. ive had buckels but on old jute backed carpets
 

ruff

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Ofer Kolton
My apologies if I'm preaching to the choir.

Usually it is an installation issue (carpet was not stretched properly and is larger than the area it is covering) and will go away in a couple of days.
The water is absorbed differently in the different layers of the carpet and creates tension (clay in glue layer for example, expands). Most times the buckling can be seen on inspection prior to cleaning, that's why it is important to write it down ahead of time as a preexisting condition. As if they see it afterwards they freak out and become hyper aware of it & make a mountain out of every tiny hill :winky:, though it was always there.

If you use very high flow, heat and pressure, it could be that a lot more moisture than you realize was absorbed by the glue layer (possibly pad) and therefore take longer to relax.

How to deal with the clients psychologically, is a whole different issue.
 
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Vivers

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Since you've never had a problem before in 12yrs I won't go to over wetting, too hot, etc. Instead could it be basically poor installation/stretching
 

SamIam

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I always say Its a water issue usually pops where You put down to much pre spray and on overlaps of cleaning.

I always heard its action back carpet and always flattens out on its own in 2 to 3 days.

Real issue is you stretch it then it settles back down and pulls off the tackless your really hosed.

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SamIam

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I like Ofer's explanation better, If its gonna pop you'll notice it pretty quick, explaining to the customer up front your aware of it and it will go away in a few days.


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richard

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Richard Weedman
I always thought a problem like this is an install issue or extreme wear. But puzzled why it happened to me twice recently. I explained to the first customer (4 wks ago)it was probably not power stretched in when installed 8 years ago but she wasn't buying it she kept asking "can't you turn it in to your insurance company?' So to keep her off Angie's List I paid a friend to re-stretch it.
The job today - I told the lady to give it until tomorrow to see if it will relax. Other rooms were recently re-stretched but only one room had the ripples. I asked if the guy used a knee kicker or a power stretcher and she 'thought it was a knee kicker' . I am not over wetting - carpet surface was dry in less than 3 hours and a very humid day. Using 450 psi, glided Green Horn wand (shear kit manifold) and about 180-190 degrees at the truck with 150 feet of hose.
Thanks for the replies.
 
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Spurlington

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Ive had a customer say,"well arent you going to call someone to restretch the carpet." I simply said, "No .. the bubbling is a poor installation issue .. a loose carpet will bubble when heat and moisture is introduced." I was good to go .. that was a job I saw loose carpet and didnt mention it at the beginning ..and now, Im always looking for the loose areas and always point out anything that is not tightly stretched upon pre-inspection .. even if I dont think itll bubble .. you really gotta point everything out .. CYA ..

some customers dont realize the issuses until the cleaning and because you didnt bring it up at the beginning, you are looked at as the one responsible .. and it is your fault - for not bringin it up
 

GeneMiller

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gene miller
I've never had one that didn't go away the next day. If water is getting into the clay it will stay longer than you think. Dry to touch is not dry to meter. I've had them ripple just from a light prespray. Its the clay extenders.

Gene
 
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On an estimate recently I pointed out the pre-existing buckling to the customer and he was under the mistaken impression that steam cleaning would tighten the carpet and remove the wrinkles, kinda like a steam iron does to clothing.

Good communication with you customer on this issue is important. Explain the situation and document the condition on your quote.
 

Brian H

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I have seen it take up to a week for the buckling to disappear even though the carpet is dry in less then 12 hours. When we get a call on that, I tell the customers that 99.9% of the time the carpet will re-tighten all on it's own and it may take a few days. If after 5 days the buckling has not gone down, then call us back and we will arrange to have the carpet restretched. I then delay another few days getting the repair guy out because I have seen it take up to 2 weeks to finally return to it's original shape.

I don't care how good you are at explaining why it wasn't your fault, the bottom line for customers is that it wasn't like that before you started. It's not worth it to your reputation to not take care of the issue. We restretch a few carpets every year and all those customers know it wasn't our fault but we will correct it. (I have one right now that I am arranging to have restretched. 14 x 20 basement carpet, over pad and the installer only used a knee kicker.)
 

SamIam

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sam miller
Here's the thing I have seen people with swamp coolers get bumps in the summer only to go back down after the moisture's gone down. Its definetly water related and the degree to which it pops and settles is how quick it dries.

I get 2 to 3 hour dry to the touch carpet and when it happens now that I use fans it goes down faster as long as no more moisture is introduced to the area.

The problem with the bad install theory is I done carpet that are loose and buckled on edges and it doesn't get worse or react at all. Like someone said its backing related to how much water is absorbed causing swelling. The backing takes longer to dry and settle even though it feels dry to the touch.

It always settle if it pops from the cleaning always.


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billyeadon

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Bill Yeadon
This is very strange. If you have been cleaning for 12 years and this never happened then something in your cleaning has changed. The majority of carpet is incorrectly installed using a knee kicker. An action bac carpet cannot be properly installed using a knee kicker. I can guarantee that in the last 12 years you have cleaned hundreds of carpet installed this way. What all of a sudden changed?

brian had the best response. Wait it out as I have never seen one not flatten unless it was a case of delamination.
 
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Ron K

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SO why doesn't the IICRC say something to these Carpet Manufacturers for using Clay extenders.
 

bob vawter

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soooooo what happened?
everything go back down......



you left the Waste Tank dump valve open.....didn't ya....?
 

Loren Egland

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Oct 18, 2006
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Antioch, California
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Loren Egland
I carry a sheet that explains the problem when I see buckling. Here is what it contains:

<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on">P.O. Box 2048</st1:street> <st1:city w:st="on">Dalton</st1:city> <st1:country-region w:st="on">Georgia</st1:country-region></st1:address>30722-2048<o:p></o

706.278.3176<o:p></o

carpet-rug.org<o:p></o
<o:p> </o
Carpet Wrinkles (“Buckles” or “Bubbles”)<o:p></o

Technical Bulletin<o:p></o

<o:p></o
Wrinkles, which can be unsightly as well as create trip hazards, accelerate carpet<o:p></o
wear, and cause the carpetto delaminate are rarely a result of manufacturing.<o:p></o
Experience shows that proper installation techniques greatly reduce the potential for wrinkling. <o:p></o
<o:p></o
Steps that can be taken during installation to prevent carpet from becoming loose<o:p></o
are:<o:p></o
<o:p></o
First, the carpet shouldbe acclimated to the environment in which it is to be<o:p></o
installed. Cold, stiffcarpet cannot be properly stretched, and it will eventually become warm, relax,and loose, regardless of how tightly it was originally stretched.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
Second, carpet installed via the stretch-in installation method MUST be power<o:p></o
stretched 1 to 1½% over both the length and width of the carpet (CRI-105 1995*,<o:p></o
Section 9.14).<o:p></o
<o:p></o
It is mandatory that the carpet be power stretched using power stretchers with<o:p></o
extendable poles, not kicked with a knee kicker. Knee kickers are useful installation tools designed for positioning carpet, not for stretching. Power stretchers with tail pins or spikes, most often referred to as a “stinger” are not to be used because they may damage the face yarns, the primary and secondary backings, the cushion, and possibly even the floor.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
Third, use the correct carpet cushion. Cushion that is too thick and too soft (low<o:p></o
density) will allow excessive flexing of the carpet causing it to lose its stretch. CRI<o:p></o
recommends cushion be no thicker than 7/16 inch for residential applications.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
Fourth, the tack strip must be adequate to hold the applied stretch. For distances<o:p></o
over 30 feet, use architectural strip with three rows of tacks. Position the strip no more than 3/8 inch from the wall or other vertical surfaces.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
Finally, always refer toand follow manufacturer’s installation instructions and/or<o:p></o
the CRI-105 Standard for Installation of Residential Carpet.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
The severity of thepotential bubbling or wrinkling can often be influenced by<o:p></o
changes in temperature and humidity. In addition, carpet that is loose may also wrinkle and buckle when wet cleaned; however, it will oftentimes return to its original position upon drying.<o:p></o
<o:p></o
To correct loose carpet problems, refer to the CRI Technical Bulletin for<o:p></o
restretching carpet.<o:p></o
 
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