rug problem

[lust1kiddo]

I have a customer that i just cleaned on sunday, she has a wool rug..its like one of the looped ones from pottery barn. I used Chempsec's DFC 105 on it. I didnt leave any blowers even though i should have cause thats my fault. The rug started turning pink in certain spots. The customer called me today so I figured that it was from it not drying fast enough and the detergent was still working. So i grabbed some chemspec all fabric textile rinse and rinsed it out then left a fan on it. That was this morning..she just called me now saying that it is worse than before and the rug is pink all over. I am going to go pick it up tomorrow..I dont understand what is happening. Can someone please help me..thanks. This is the second issue that I thought the textile rinse would fix and it made it worse..how is that possible?

Jarred
p.s. I know you guys bust my balls about taking classes and shit...but I did take the CCT class and the checked the PH on what I was using etc..and the DFC say's its woolsafe.

 

[rhyde]

sounds like stencil bleeding* when you get the rug post a pic front and back


*stencil bleeding is when they outline the design on the foundation material with a marker during cleaning or drying it's wicked to the surface

 

[lust1kiddo]

thanks man...will do.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

I had never seen that before until Lisa posted "How a hook rug can hang you". Then about a week later we got one in for cleaning. Thanks Lisa

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

I had never seen that before until Lisa posted "How a hook rug can hang you". Then about a week later we got one in for cleaning. Thanks Lisa

Hey thanks for the thanks man!

Here is a photo of one of the rugs in that thread:

And here is that blog post on "How A Hooked Rug Can Hang You" -
http://www.therugchick.com/2009/08/how-a-hooked-rug-can-hang-you/

Part of your preinspection on hooked rugs is to GRIN open the loops and see if you can see that ink BEFORE you get it wet. It will wick up. It always does. Sometimes you can lessen this by drying the rug upside down so it wicks to the back... but correcting this afterwards is next to impossible - as all ink is on wool.

This is a MANUFACTURING FLAW. You might show your client the blog post I did on this so it is SOMEONE ELSE showing why this happened, and that can be printed out and taken to the store she bought it from. I've had some of my coaching clients do this, and the stores have replaced their customers rugs because they were defective.

Might be worth a shot.

Lisa

 

[rhyde]

The only times i haven't been able to remove stenciling is when it's been fussed with by someone that doesn't know what they are doing. I have some hook rug pics somewhere but it happens in all types of rugs cheap, expensive, hand made, hand tufted



Indo-Nepalese with stencil bleeding this rug had lots of urine in it washed fine stenciling bleed overnight..this was a rug i cleaned for Walt Bush.

Sino rayon rug a cleaner in Spokane apparently tried to clean it and bleed the rug

 

[Hoody]

Nice job randy!

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

It amazes me that they do that stenciling and don't recognize the problems with it.

Just a note Randy, most who end up discovering this problem are not in-plant cleaners, so for them to try to strip this ink successfully on-site .... yeah, I'm not betting my money on it.

I've had some success with Terry's magic bar of soap. and we use sodium hydrasulfide for dye migration stripping - also not to be used on-site.

Lisa

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I have always wondered how you remove fugitive dye bleeding. Do you just re-wash it until it stops bleeding?

That is why I take extra precaution to not bleed a rug. I use dye loc, haitian cotton shampoo, and have cleaned quite a few instant bleeders with great success.

Lisa what is sodium hydrasulfide? It may be in something I have on hand. I haven't checked.

 

[lust1kiddo]

Guys..thank you so so so much!!!!!!!! I am going to print out that article and give it to my client when I take the rug. The rug is green and white. is there any way to fix it? I am so thankful that I know what the problem is. I don't mind making mistakes because its part of my learning curve..but not knowing what they are really frustrates me. Is it possible that this problem could also happen with upholstery? Also...I have bought the color stabilizer from pro choice..would that help? I was pissed because the thing looked like a million bucks when I left..my method for cleaning the rugs is i pre spray let it sit for like 10 minutes or whatever while I set up my machine then rinse down close with the upholstery tool. I always cleans real super well and I almost never have any problems. I use the upholstery tool because it works better than the wand and I am sure the customer will be not happy about paying 2.OO/ft for me to finish in 8 minutes. Maybe the hand wand over wets the rugs and that could force the wicking? Does anyone know about those other hand wands that the spray doesn't penetrate like these and kind of just skims the top..I heard about them in class. I'm going to call the guy who was talking about it to get the name. Again..thank you guys so much !!!!!!

Jarred
going for my upholstery class next week..lol. The cowboy has hung up his hat !gotcha!

 

[lust1kiddo]

holy smokes randy...that's amazing work

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

The only times i haven't been able to remove stenciling is when it's been fussed with by someone that doesn't know what they are doing. I have some hook rug pics somewhere but it happens in all types of rugs cheap, expensive, hand made, hand tufted



Indo-Nepalese with stencil bleeding this rug had lots of urine in it washed fine stenciling bleed overnight..this was a rug i cleaned for Walt Bush.

Sino rayon rug a cleaner in Spokane apparently tried to clean it and bleed the rug

Randy - that rug with the blue "leader lines" looks like a wool Tabriz, I've never seen rayon product at that weave grade come out of China ... or anywhere for that matter.

Looks great though!
Lisa

 

[sweendogg]

Lisa you need to visit out showroom them... we had a few sino pearsian orientals that fooled even very experienced collectors who thought they were authentic Tabriz.

 

[rhyde]

it's a sino it even had the folded over salvge with real silk sewn on the ends i'm really bad with my picture managment.

Ron Koller this was the lady you refered to me 4-6 months ago.

 

[Ron K]

Randy no problem at all .... glad I could help.

Looks great, I knew it would.

 

[lust1kiddo]

ok guys i have three pics..I cant figure out how to post them. What do I do?

 

[sweendogg]

Setup up an account on photobucket.com.

upload your images to photobucket account.

Use the IMG link provided by photobucket underneath your saved photos, and paste them in your post here on mikeysboard. Then voala.. pics.

If you can't figure out, send them to me at David@Sweeneybrothers.com and I'll post them for you.

 

[sweendogg]

Here are the Photos of Jarred's Rug boo boo

 

[lust1kiddo]

hey man..thanks for posting the pics. I printed out that article for the lady and she understands that its not my fault etc..is kind of pissed at macy's where she bought it. Its a Martha Stewardt rug..lol. Never liked that lady..lol.

 

[Ron K]

Doesn't look like stencil bleeding IMO looks like a wicked back spot/stain.

 

[The Great Oz]

Is that rug wool or cotton? I highly recommend avoiding cleaning any cotton pile rug with Martha Stewart's name on it.

 

[lust1kiddo]

sorry that i said it was wool before..its cotton. Does that make a huge difference? Is there a way to fix it or is this the stencil thing. the customer bought the stencil reason..truth. If its not...how can I fix it?

 

[Doug Cox]

As soon as I saw that, I knew it was cotton. Too many possible issues on those rugs.

 

[lust1kiddo]

can you just elaborate for me as far as the issues go and what to look out for? I dont wanna **** anything up in the future..thanks.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Could it be PH?

Had I just seen the photo and not read the thread I'd thing PH and indicator dye.

MSDS doesn't show it as a high PH but it sure looks like a chemical reaction to me.

 

[sweendogg]

Not pH.. looks like classic stencil bleeding from my end. I don't know why but they love to use red/pinkish red pens/markers for the pattern on the back as well. and the martha Stewart collection is infamous for these problems as I recall. Cotton rugs are not all that difficult to clean... if you know what your doing. However when you have the unknown and cheap manufactureing problems associated with some of these designer rugs, then you start running into challenges like you discovered.

The two biggest factors in preventing stencil bleed or even dye bleed for that matter is understanding heat and chemistry.

You could take a normaly cleanable rug that could go through a full cold water hand washing with the correct chemistries with no problems what so all and turn it into a bleeding pig by increasing the temperature or using the wrong chemistries.

natural fibers are dyed at lower temps and so will tend to bleed when temperatures are higher. And because dyes are not locked into the fiber like most synthetic fibers, highly buffered alkaline cleaning agents even mild to severe can loosen dyes as well.

Cotton tends to be color safe althought its a good idea to stick to an acid side cleaning or at very least a heavy acid rinse to sour the cotton to prevent browning. In this case, the stenciling was not watersafe and bled through.

It sounds like you don't have the blame on this one, and as such if I was dealing with a limited work environment as you have to, I would probably refer the correction to an actuel cleaning plant in your area you trust.

Or if you want to tackle the problem, have her sign off and make her realize that you are correcting an inherent problem from the factory. (don't forget to charge for it as well) Correction will be slow and I would probably explain that it will only remove from the cream colored areas. I'd recommend Magic, a steamer and alot of patience. (though for the green area you may try wilson's yellow go in a test area to see if you could retain the original dye. Of course that really needs a little training to perform as well . )

In the future you can avoid this by as Lisa W. said below.. Grin the rug to inspect for stencil dye.

 

[lust1kiddo]

thanks for everyone's help. I am taking it to a restoration place tomorrow morning in queens. I only use cold water when cleaning naturals. The loops are so tight on this thing that even if i did know to check for ink i wouldn't be able to see it.

 

[lust1kiddo]

plus the dfc dries neutral..at least thats what it says. 9.5 and then dries neutral..plus i ended up textile rinsing on the second visit.

 

[sweendogg]

The inks/ pens/ stenciling are nasty though in that they can loosen with just moisture regardless of pH level... that is why I said chemistry.. pH is overstated even in rug cleaning. Its more important to understand the chemistry being used and how it is interacting with your fibers.. and as you learned here, you can anticipate everything. This is were experience will lead you to look for these types of things.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I would have F'd that rug up for sure. I am glad you posted this. It still doesn't look like bleeding to me. If it is, how come it didn't bleed the entire rug?