Rugs as pet toilets - what do you flush with?

LisaWagnerCRS

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In our last rug cleaning clinic we had a rug from Iran with a lot of pet activity. In fact, in three major areas, the urine repeated exposure had led to mildew and dry rot on-set (these areas were stiff and sound hollow when you knock them with your fist).
BLOG-iranianrugwithpetstain.jpg


On corner had both dye migration and torn tassels from its urine exposure. We saturated it first with acetic acid (got 15% and cut it down with water to 5% and poured it straight on the worst areas first).
PB-Persianrug-Soakingcornerinacetic.jpg


When a cleaner does not have a place to set up a large pit for a room size rug like this, I'll have them pour the vinegar on the spot and use the water claw to pull the vinegar, and the yellow water, out ... and repeat until the yellow does not flow. This at least gets most of the odor-causing elements out of the rug that may not be completely immersed but will only be surface cleaned (which I don't recommend, but you know it will happen anyway).

We washed this rug, after using a lot of acetic acid. What was nice about this wash floor was the grates and trench dug all around the edges, so it was a place to pull in the vehicles during snowy times, but also use as a wash floor during the day.
Persianrug-Givingarugabathinclass.jpg


So... I have always had very good results using acetic acid not only as a dye stabilizer (and protector of neighboring fibers when rugs do bleed) - but also using it to remove urine from the inside fibers of these rugs.

Anything else you guys like to use to flush a rug with in order to remove the contaminants?

I find when I use the acid, I very rarely need to use any products outside of our regular wash process. I have used MB's skunk odor remover, but hated the fragrance. I prefer their Anti-Allergen Deodorizer. I've like some of Unsmoke's products a lot - but not all are approved to use in California (those commies!). Some of my students love Bridgepoint's Hydrocide.

What else? Let's ring in the new year with a healthy conversation about pet pee!
Lisa

Rug Chick post on Pet Accidents > http://www.therugchick.com/?p=403
 

Jim Pemberton

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I believe MB Anti Allergen Deodorizer uses an oxidizer as its active ingredient Lisa.

Any color problems when you've used it? I like the stuff, but have worried about how it might react with wool, especially where it has already had color damage from urine residues. If that's worked safely, have you tried Unsmoke Liqua Zone, which is also an oxidizer, and is legal in California?

Are you purchasing glacial acetic acid and diluting it, or just getting white vinegar at the best price you can purchase it in bulk?
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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I thought everything from MB was woolsafe? :)

Nope - have not had a problem, however, I've only used it in cleaning situations (not in my plant) where a full immersion wash was not possible. Otherwise acetic acid has always worked very well for us.

For the clinic in Canada we used 15% acetic acid bought at a local janitorial store, did one part acid to 2 parts water. When we washed rugs in Tampa, we picked up white vinegar at a grocery store (gallons were just a few bucks - and that is 6% acetic acid - we mixed it 50/50 with water).

At our plant we get 98% glacial acetic (this stuff is NASTY) and cut it down one part to 31 parts water in a 32 gallon drum.

Thanks for chiming in...

Lisa

P.S. No, I have not tried liqua zone - I will put it on my list, thanks!
 

Mikey P

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Lisa what is the longest period of time you or your chimps have ever spent flushing a rug?



and were you without a doubt it was completely urine free?
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Royal blue Chinese rug, 9x12, 11 dogs, we soaked it all night - because if the blue bled, no one would notice.

If it's a small rug, and dye migration is not an issue, we will roll it up and dunk it in a barrel of acid for a few hours while cleaning other rugs.

Typically though, we are soaking 20-40 minutes depending on the size, with a rug with a few areas to work on. This rug in the photos - we let the mix dwell on the problem areas 20 minutes, then led into the wash.

You can never guarantee ALL the urine is out - you can just flush the water with a squeegee and see if it runs yellow, or if it is finally clear. Same with the water claw - see if it's cleared up.

Don't think my Russian General would appreciate being called a chimp.

Let's try "wash supervisor"... :)

Lisa
 

Mikey P

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I'll give you $100 if you borrow Joe's stupid flip cam and film yourself calling the Rusky a Chimp to his face.


I'll get Pemberton to kick in a case of MB Skunk B Gone if you do the squint at least twice.
 

ACE

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Lisa,
I hope that rug got repaired after you where done cleaning it.

I am no marketing or rug guru but the rugs that I have worked on with heavy contamination needed some heavy duty agitation in addition to flushing to get all the wee wee out. The water claw idea is very lame. Trust me I tryed it. Most woven knots are so tight pit washing / flushing alone are only scratching the surface. The best thing I have found is to keep running a bonnet over it in the pit (I got the idea from pics Mikey posted).
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Ace - we are flushing it with acid BEFORE the wash, to remove the urine salts from within the rug. Of course we then go to shampoo, and scrubbing. In my plant we use a rotary floor scrubber, in the class with this rug we used a Cimex.

Sorry I was not clear on that - I was asking about the pre-wash work to eliminate the odor. And the water claw is not a lame idea for those who cannot soak the entire rug in acid - or are afraid to due to possibly bleeding other areas of the rug because it is not colorfast. So then you would saturate just one specific area, and use the claw to simply extract it.

I hope that makes more sense.

And Mike ... when you are dealing with someone who had a bullet removed with a knife in the field in Afghanistan because when you enter a Russian hospital you die ... yeah, I am not that much of a risk taker. Of course, with Obamacare, we may all need to brush up on our knife skills...

I like my impersonation of Tre! :)
Lisa
 

sweendogg

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Lisa, we have had great success with MB Skunk out.. The odor can be very strong but we usually knock it down in dilution to about 2.5 oz to a gallon and add about a gallon to gallon and a half to a urine soak rug. If its a potential dye bleeder I'll pretreat entire rug with acetic acid as well to keep the dyes from migrating and setting into the lighter areas. Had that low of a dilution, the smell of skunk it is a non issue and because of its solvency there is no need for any additional soap during the wash process after the submersion. Usually three hours or so.

Master blend has oked the Anti Allergen Deoderizer for wool rugs but at slightly lesser dilution than recommend directions.

Jim.. the anti allergen deoderizer is based on Chlorine Dioxide and has proven very effective without much problems that normal oxidizers produce on wool carpets.
 

Willy P

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meAt said:
now this is the Lisa I love

even my friend Willy appreciates this stuff... :wink:

thanks Lisa


..L.T.A.

Indeed I do MeAtsTeR. Back in my days at the rug plant in the 80's, we soured and then left a garden hose flowing.
 
B

Bill G. Martin

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"in Tampa, we picked up white vinegar at a grocery store (gallons were just a few bucks - and that is 6% acetic acid - we mixed it 50/50 with water'

So Lisa, help me out here ....that could get expensive?? If you have pit that say holds a hundred gallons and you mixed it 50/50 with water....that would be 50 gallons of white vinegar if you are doing a total soaking of the rug in a pit?? Or is this the mix if you are just doing a surface clean and splashing the mix on the rug surface?? If that is the case, back to the 100 gallon pit....how much vinegar would you use then? Help me out here.

Bill in central Fklorida
 

sweendogg

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Not to answer for lisa, but in a pit situation, you want to hit the areas that you know have urine with a heavier concentration so with your white viniger, I'd mix about a quart to a gallon and hit the heavily urinated ar. eas and then come back with a quart to five gallons and saturate the entire rug. You can give it some dwell time to help bring the pH of the dyes and fiber where urine as contaminated down to a point where there will be less dyes migrating when you fill the bit and the acetic acid will also help the ligher areas from absorbing the dyes during your pit process.

Then after 15-30 minutes fill your pit so that the rug is fully submerged. We use a MB rug Roller to squeaze the urine from the rug. We roll it about every hour and leave it soak for a good 3-8 hours.. We also have a little advantage as we will soak problem rugs and we can still wash non pet damaged rugs on the wash floor with little problem.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Hey David - great answer, you can answer for me any time. :)

So... Bill... I would do essentially along the lines David says if I have a temporary pit - though I'm big about pumping out the contaminated water, and putting in fresh.

In an actual large plant, with a cement floor at an incline, you can dump buckets of acid mix onto the rug, run hoses underneath after some dwell time, and squeegee the top of the rug - taking a layer of urine colored water off, with fresh water coming through the back.

We will then get the shampoo out, rotary scrub, and finish the wash up when we are done with an acid rinse. Then through the wringer.

Everyone's wash steps are a bit different. We don't use a roller - we use scrubbers and a squeegee. One is not better than the other - it's just what you like.

Also - when you are buying glacial acetic acid at 60% or 98% or 99% - you can cut it down to 3-5% range. A five gallon container of 98% acetic runs us about $60. We mix it one part to 31 parts water - so it ends up being very inexpensive.

If you are only doing a few rugs a week, and have a pet affected one come in, I'm just saying that you can go run and grab some vinegar in a pinch. In Canada we used 15% acetic bought at the local janitorial supplier. I know Chemspec makes 5% acetic also.

My point of the post was not really to tell everyone what to do. I know there are knowledgeable rug cleaners here, so I was just curious what others do for removing urine from inside the warps and wefts of woven rugs.

Thanks everyone for the input. Nice to know all I have to do is talk urine and Meat and Willy like me a little bit more. :)

Lisa
 

Dolly Llama

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Thanks everyone for the input. Nice to know all I have to do is talk urine and Meat and Willy like me a little bit more. :)

Lisa

rugs, dear, rugs
with or without the urine
and as long as you keep the joey baloney infomercials to a bare minimum, i won't have to clean VOMIT out of my own fine wal-mart famous designer Miss Poly Propalene rugz....
Poly is famous, you know?
all my double wide clients have them over their shellaced OSB flooring


..L.T.A.
 

Willy P

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Lisa I think the world of you. Will you move up to Vancouver and marry me? I can teach you how to catch steelhead and ride a mountain bike.
Do you have a boat and can you play hockey? :wink:

Sharing is good. Sharing without an infomercial is way better.
 

Larry Cobb

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Lisa;

While we do sell some Glacial & some 18% acetic acid for that purpose...

I don't think it is the best product for pet stain problems.

I like to use a powder reducing agent instead of the 3-5% acetic acid.

The pH is ideal for rugs @ 5.5 .

On items with no liability concerns, I would go to a mixture of actual enzyme and oxidizer.

The blend allows a low concentration of oxidizer to lessen the dye risk.

Larry
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Larry - are you talking about removing the urine from the inside fibers, or trying to remove the stains? Or both?

Are you washing in a pit, or surface cleaning, or do you have a plant cement floor?

I've never had a problem with the dyes using acetic, and it's very inexpensive, so that was why I was asking the questions.

Thanks for any more info,
Lisa
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Willy ... sorry, I wasn't spurning you - was just fascinated by the pee conversation.

Priorities man, priorities... when you are typing one finger on an iPhone, you got limited time!

Sorry - no boat ... not even a truck mount in my dowry. LOL.

Lisa
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Okay Terry ... I can't tell if you are being serious here or not. Especially since now you look like a woman in your profile photo.

Fels naptha works great on removing ink from rugs, and other tough stains. My grandmother used to use it on everything.

So... are you telling me it removes pet urine from rugs?

Lisa
 

Bjorn

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4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyS5mWSC9Vk4]

cleaned this today

fels naptha rinse rinse rinse

aw29 with two flood jets at 200 psi at 2.5 gallons a minute
 

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