So did you create an upholstery cleaning problem?

Discussion in 'the CleAn Room' started by Mark Saiger, Apr 11, 2017.

By Mark Saiger on Apr 11, 2017 at 8:34 AM
  1. Mark Saiger
    Mark Saiger

    Mr Happy!

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    After a number of calls also, about upholstery cleaning problems....

    Thought I would post some pics and questions.

    First....have you taken a training class?

    Second....have you sent your techs or yourself to Jim Pemberton's training?

    Everytime I get a call, I tell everyone of them they need to change the tools they are using, change how cleaning and get over to Pemberton's for his upholstery and fabric cleaning school! @Jim Pemberton

    My son in law is going to be getting shipped out there in the future...and I might be coming along too!

    But here are just a few things lately....

    Do you know how to fix these?

    The video is not mine by the way...as I have been very fortunate (knock wood) to have not run into the zombie fire retardant waiting and hiding for me to be the first to clean and expose.

    The one Chair...the cat peed on the furniture...lady asked for other spot cleaning (after she created white out spot on her chair in right corner back) so the tech apparently used a upholstery prespray, and extracted...and well...you see the results.

    Fixing it vs replacing (as another company also got a hold of the pieces and did a solvent cleaned and didn't correct the problem)

    So go....how would you fix? We have some good cleaners here who will jump in and answer fast I bet....

    (the lady wants this entire 3 piece set replaced or reupholstered for $3100...)

    Resized_IMG_2103001_1491842343317.jpg

    Here is your Zombie fire retardant waiting for you stain

    2017-04-11 11.28.32.png 2017-04-11 11.32.09.png

    NOT my video...but sharing


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Comments

Discussion in 'the CleAn Room' started by Mark Saiger, Apr 11, 2017.

    1. Onfire_02_01
      Onfire_02_01

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      The chair is not my problem. She created the bleached areas and there is nothing I can do about it. I could re-dye the fabric if she would like me to; oh and $500 per hour to fix.
      The couch needs an acid side cleaner like TCU or something else for URINE. Perhaps start by using an encap product and then a urine cleaner.
      Might just be easier to re-dye the fire retardant mess as well.
    2. Jimmy L
      Jimmy L

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      Mist on a browning formula and extract
    3. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      The fire retardent reaction will keep damaging any dye that would be applied to the fabric. Think of it like "unneutralized" chlorine that you can't ever stop from working.

      pH neutralization with ammonia, then sodium bicarbonate, works more times than not.

      Best bet: If it has down in the cushion, have a heart to heart with the customer about all the risks, or just don't do it. I have more sad stories about this issue than you could hear in an Irish pub in a year....
      CtcClean and Mark Saiger like this.
    4. hogjowl
      hogjowl

      @

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      Jim:
      If you were doing your job, we wouldn't have to suffer through more of Saiger.
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    5. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      I feel I am but a novice in the field of pictorial and video story telling in comparison to Sir Saiger.
      darcie smith and Mark Saiger like this.
    6. Mark Saiger
      Mark Saiger

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      Jim,

      With the chair in the picture (I believe Linen) what would you suggest at a procedure to fix?
    7. Nate The Great
      Nate The Great

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      I'd do the same for the chair... Then clean the whole piece and it should be fine... I haven't come across fire retardant that bad before... We just see the orange humidity spots here...
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    8. rwcarpet
      rwcarpet

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      I've bought my first piece of upholstery......in 38+ years of cleaning. All because I didn't get a waiver, it was an insurance job, and the lady was a snubby bitch. I will never assume a piece of furniture again. Even the simple fabric pieces. And Ill never clean with out a signed waiver again. This piece in question had no damage or questionable fabric......I've done a 1000 of these chairs in a lifetime. Even JP tried to walk me through a correction. No go. It was a hidden stain, possibly a marker from the factory. It was on the front/back of this chair and no way to get behind it to inspect. No other area had this problem.

      Get a signed waiver or walk away. I only settled because it was for a W/D contractor that gives me tons of work. Flood Extraction, and cleaning. And he couldn't get the check to pay his people, because it was made out to homeowner and his company.

      I'd like to create a business that could blacklist consumers who tend to sue service providers (us) and sell the list to other small business guys like us. Then you can make a decision as to whether to want to chance working for these customers......or walking away. I think that information could be researched and found in the legal offices of the county. (As in lawsuits filed).
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    9. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      Was that caused by cleaning or water damage?
    10. Mikey P
      Mikey P

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      looks to me like a rookie spot cleaned with his TLC..
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    11. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      I reread your post Mark, I see that it was "spot cleaned".

      Mssrs Ladwig and Nate have good ideas, but the first thing I do with any kind of "water mark" is apply distilled water to the entire piece. It won't hurt a thing, and more times than not, it removes the water stain. Even if it is browning, it tends to lessen the intensity, and make subsequent browning treatments more effective.

      After that, you get into using reducers and oxidizers, which can leave residual chemical odors, over whitening, and a myriad of other annoyances or actual damage.

      The person who caused the problem is the one who should fix it. Anyone else is asking to be entangled into the web of obligation here, and I wouldn't recommend doing that at all.
    12. Jimmy L
      Jimmy L

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      Correction sir that is , " Missy Ladwig"
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    13. rwcarpet
      rwcarpet

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      Cleaning Jim. Remember our conversation last year? You had me try a variety of different options, right down to distilled water rinse. It still has that faint ring. Lady just wanted a new chair. We tried to get her to let us reupholster it with a local upholsterer, but she would't hear it.
    14. Desk Jockey
      Desk Jockey

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      Not uncommon with insurance claims. Its as if the insured feels they are due something. Despite all the hard work and effort a restoration contractor puts into a project some homeowners only see dollars signs. Those are dollars that are not going in there pocket.

      Fortunately those types are far and few between.
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    15. Mark Saiger
      Mark Saiger

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      That's what I tell all lot of them too...Don't get into more problems....and you should have prewarned the clients better....

      First, I would have spent time to explain what could happen...and "do you want me to proceed?"

      And some of this, I am going to try and fix something that is being created before I got here...and I can only try my best.

      We have only had a few pieces we have had suspect of fire retardation potential problems...and we warn the people...and even offer to vacuum the pieces a least for free...but will even refuse to clean further...

      I know a lot of people do not hear what we are trying to explain, and some do... and are a bit scared but say "if it doesn't turn out we are tossing it anyway"

      We would rather walk away from some we know that could be a problem vs getting into a situation that you are scrambling to fix and loosing money.

      I would have also started with distilled water here too...and proceeded I hope cautiously...but there are times...I have taken a chance...but I never put my guys in that position...

      There is no money worth the potential headache and hassle if we suspect trouble.

      Thanks Jim for the input...and I just keep telling people to get to your class! (us included :) )
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    16. Ofer Kolton
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      Jim I understand the ammonia part (is the stain a dye indicator stain?).
      Why sodium bicarbonate and not, say, 10 vol peroxide?
    17. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      Ammonia has the pH level needed to adjust the pH of the dyes to where they can begin to appear normal, but it self neutralizes, and as soon as it does, the dyes will shift back to red.

      Before they shift back, you must apply the sodium bicarbonate, which is also alkaline, though by itself not alkaline enough to do the pH shift. What it does is leave an alkaline residue that doesn't allow the pH to drop enough for the red shift to occur again.

      The sodium bicarbonate isn't sticky, but can leave a powdery film, which may be difficult to remove, but with brushing and patience it will come out.

      Peroxide is already mildly acidic, and will not help.

      This formula does not always work, so don't count on it saving you. It won't help on white fabrics that turn brown from the flame retardant, nor darker fabrics that are so badly contaminated that there is some color loss.
      Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
    18. roro
      roro

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      Having never used distilled water (except in my whiskey) could you clarify a lttle. When you say "apply" Jim are you meaning to mist on with a trigger spray or saturate the fabric with it, and
      do you then just extract that, or do you rinse with normal upholstery solution.?

      roro
    19. Jim Pemberton
      Jim Pemberton

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      In this case, evenly dampen the fabric so that you dissolve the sizing and lignin that has built up into the visible line so that it "evens out" over the entire fabric.

      After drying, you can observe the results and determine if further treatment is needed.
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