Starting out, let me pick your brains please

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
Hi,
I am 50 and I'm looking for a new career.I have some rentals that need cleaning periodically and have been using a carpet cleaner who is very good and who also talks a lot about the positive aspects of this business.That got me inspired.
I think I would enjoy having a truckmount and giving it a go myself.
Now, as I am trying to gather information I'm getting more confused.
My guy has a Prochem Everest 50 hp machine.He says the high horsepower is the only way to go.Then I talked to some other people who say that 50 hp for a single wand is overkill.
I want to do residential and light commercial to start with and want to do good quality work, not low end property management type of stuff.
How much horsepower do I really need? l'd love to be able to buy a used truck that is not all worn out yet. The ones I see on e bay often have low power units like the prochem blazer in it.They also seem to be pretty worn.Should I stay away from those?Is there a good source for used gear? I was told that it's either Prochem or Hydromaster and I should stay away from aircooled and direct drive.I could potentially spend more and get a new Hydromaster 427 and a used truck to put it in but that would put me into the 30000.- dollar range.I'd prefer to stay around 15000.- if I could.Would that make sense? Could I find a decent rig for that amount? I'm in nothern Idaho and I might have spent 1000.- to travel across the country to find the right truck.Would that be too risky?
Do you guys have any advice for me?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
 

truckmount girl

1800greenglides
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
8,880
Location
Sun City, CA
Name
Lisa Smith
Welcome to the board and welcome to the industry!

BIG QUESTION FOR YOU:

How mechanically inclined are you? That makes a big difference in the machine you choose and who you buy it from and whether nearby service is vital to you.

Take care,
Lisa
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
Hi Lisa,
I used to have a british sportscar for 13 years so I'm not afraid to tinker a little bit but not to the extend that my 62 TR4 required.Also, I guess those machines are quite heavy so I'm not set up to install one into a van.
There is a local shop nearby which recommends the Hydromatic 427 or a Prochem Apex but there we are talking around 20000.- just for the machine.I was really hoping I'd be able to get a complete rig for that much.I was told that even new machines fail from time to time so I wouln't mind getting something that is already time tested but not worn out.
D Smith, you sent me a link to propane heated machines.The use of propane for this is new to me.What are the advantages of propane? No prices on the website and the closest distibutor is in Auburn CA quite a ways away.But I'll give them a call on monday to get more info.
 

Matt King

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
366
Dollar for dollar I don't think you can beat a simple LP machine with an air cooled 2 cylinder. Especially as an owner/operator and just starting out for yourself.
 

John Watson

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,885
You will be money ahead if you get to know Scotty to Hotty and Marty at LPM in Spokane just down the road and across the line from you. tell them I sent you and you want my special discounts... If you already have a van, I have an older PC Bruin II (Water cooled engine, built in heat exchanger system) that has alot of hours left in it and I am just on the other side of the mountain.

Helen, My Boss is a few years older than you and still swings a mean wand. What ever you get you want to put a GreenGlide on your wand from Jeff and Lisa and It will make you preform like a 20 year old if you want to do that again..
 
G

Guest

Guest
Duane Oxley runs the shop at Accelerated Cleaning and makes a simple unit to maintain. Check out on the 3 boards for a few of his units in usage. John Nava I believe has been running one of his units for close to 10 years(?)


His website doesnt show the HWX he been working on if that is more comfortable. LP units have been around since the beginning of time. Very safe if properly taken care of.


Also freeflow sells entry level units. Alot of his units running around. Do a search here for his number/website.



Most new entry level units should run 10-15g installed new. Nick, Duane may have some recondition units if that is little more than what you want to put in.


check out Butler for recondition units. May be able to find a good deal.


Most slide ins require some form of van, trailer. I reccommend nothing less than 3/4 ton or equivent.
 

Greg Loe

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
966
Here's some good advise, learn the business before you ever get a machine and start.

Spend a lot of time with real professional cleaners that have been recommended by someone here.

Buying a machine is the easiest part of the business you'll ever do.
 

floorguy

Supportive Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
6,948
Location
Utah
Name
Doug
starting out...no way you need to dump that much into it...

just remember the simple KISS method "Keep It Simple Stupid"

i bought a lower end unit when i first bought the machine...screamin deal so i couldnt pass it up....and now after some of my own mods, and with a little help from this person and that person, i feel it will match with almost anyones...

feel free to give me a call or to drive down, (its alot cheaper then flying :D ) and i can give you my feelings about it..

801-898-6210
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
I've talked to Scott at LPM already and I've watched my carpetcleaner like a hawk for about the lat 5 times and I agree that there is a lot more to it than just buying the truck.I'm going to take classes and buy courses.
Someone said I should keep it simple.I just don't want to get an entrylevel setup,only to find out that I cannot do the quality job that someone else can do with a better machine.I'd like to make my customers happy and want them to come back and also recommend me as a guy who does good work.How simple can I be and still get that accomplished?
 
G

Guest

Guest
All machines will spray water and suck it up. After that its up to the tech. I managed a 22 truck franchise and now own two entry level units. I can clean just as good if not better than some of these 80g units running around out there.



Ps. Go to www.jondon.com and look at all the used units forsale. I would wager that a 1/3 of them couldnt make it past one year hence the low hours . Larger units equate to higher payments.
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
1,660
Location
89120
Name
Jesse
Any tm can get a carpet clean, some just faster than others. I say buy higher mid ground and spend some time and money on efficiency and methods. The right tools and systems for cleaning are more important than the machine in my opinion.
 

CL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
50
If I were to start Fresh I would look at a used Butler unit.

Have you considered how many customers it takes to make the income you desire? Figure your desired income, divide by # of week you plan to work, then by # of days you plan to work. Take that # and divide by your average job price and then figure in expenses. After all that the hard part is finding where all those jobs will come from. All your money can be spent on worthless advertising, and it takes a long time till word of mouth can fill your schedule. Be prepared to go out and sell yourself every day!

This is a great business to be in with great rewards to be sure, but as with any, it's hard work, lots of studying your craft, and marketing yourself. I wish you best of luck, but luck is only what you make of it.

P.S. There are far more variables to figuring your financial position, I just wanted to point out that it takes alot of customers to get there and you need to figure out where they will come from.
 
T

The Magician

Guest
Have you spent a day in the field cleaning carpets? 50yo and want to do CC? i'd be looking for somthing easy in my golden years.

We're flying thru time.... where did it go?
 
G

Guest

Guest
You know any thing with a 36 blower on up. When I started I started with a power flite pfx -10s. Then bought a HM 3.2 small machine. Still I was amazed at what a good job it did. Then I went machines with 45 blowers that cost 10,000.00 on up.

The best advice I can give is buy a good used van for 3 to 5 grand.
TM with a 36 blower on up. I myself would not spend more than 5-8 grand on a machine. Keep investment to a minimum. Learn your trade when it comes to cleaning carpet. After using free flow vacuum I would buy a machine with 36 45 or 47 blower HX. try to keep invest as low as possible. Cleaning biz will take a good three to six years to really be doing well. I got lucky back in 97 and did very well , got to 5 trucks in 2 and a half years. Just don't think you are going to get tons of biz cause you opened a biz . Takes dedication hard work and being able to handle rejection. Good luck.

I had a 64 MGB ,man ya learn to turn wrenches real fast... A positive ground system ,wow. That bring back memories.
 

Greg Loe

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
966
You could always start out with a high powered RD. Thousands of professional cleaners use it everyday. :twisted:

You really need to learn the business before the cleaning, then work with someone for a couple of months for hands on experience. :D

What are your plans for Christmas? Your family plans? Can you go a month or 3 without income? You only have about 2 weeks of cleaning in December. How much do you need to net in December to fill your plans in that month?
 

Steve Toburen

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
1,912
Location
Durango, Colorado/Santiago, Dominican Republic
Name
Steve Toburen
"Buying a machine is the easiest part of the business you'll ever do."

Truer words were never spoken. And since buying the machine is so very "easy" all of us do that first. (I did too.) I expect you will do the same, Roxy, and that is OK. (You know what they say about "big boys toys".)

However, Greg Loe and a few of the others keep touching on the fact that there are other factors to consider in your decision. Just a few ...

1. At 50, how much longer do you want to be in business, much less pushing a wand. I'm 54 and in pretty good shape and yet I am grateful I am not chained to "Wanda" every day. So what is your "exit strategy" from the company or do you just want to pick up a few bucks and then dump the machine down the road? It is important to "begin with the end in mind".

2. How big do ya wanna get? At 50 and especially if you have other things in your life very quickly you will limit out on the amount of work you want to do. Once you hire your first employee your entire business changes and gets incredibly more complex. Will you be prepared for it???

3. A "new career"? So are you leaving the security of corporate America? (Pension plan, health insurance, benefits?) If so, how will your new venture provide this stuff? And has been brought out above, what do you need to sustain your current standard of living? Cash flow is king when we are talking living expenses and starting out it will be zero.

4. HOW WILL YOU GET THE PHONE TO RING? Once again, "Buying a machine is the easiest part of the business you'll ever do."

5. What type of company do you want to run? What will your image be? How do you plan to "brand" yourself?

6. How are you going to set pricing? Will you know your costs from the git-go and have your accounting under control. The vast majority of people in this business do not remotely charge enough to cover the true cost of being in business, much less make a profit. (this and point #4 above are the reasons you see all those low hour used truck mounts for sale!)

So get yourself educated BEFORE you jump in the deep end, Roxy. Ride with some carpet cleaners, pick people's brains and not just on blower size and motor HP. Go to seminars, net work and learn.

Just take everything that people say with a grain of salt. It isn't that most folks will lie to you (OK, maybe a few TM sales people will!) But everyone will recommend the way they are running their business just because they sincerely feel that their way is the best way. But both the blessing and the curse of this industry is there are so many different routes to success. Your challenge will be to define what your success is going to be and then of course how you plan to get there!

Have fun and let me know how I can help.

Steve Toburen CR
Director of Training
Jon-Don's Strategies for Success

PS Roxy, I want to stress that I am NOT dissing this business. Carpet cleaning was very, very good to me. I sold my company at 38 and have been extremely semi-retired now for the last 16 years. (I only "work" six weeks a year teaching our SFS seminars.) Life is good. BUT this business can also enslave you. Many carpet cleaners are not remotely "successful" by ANY definition of the word. Industry bulletin boards like this one can be a valuable resource for you. So at the end of a long (but heart felt) post I congratulate you for finding this little "band of brothers".

PS I do have a free Special Report called "Fifty Tips for Success in the Cleaning and Restoration Business." It won't replace the suggestions I made above on getting oriented and educated before jumping in. But many have told me it is valuable. If you (or anyone else) want a free copy e-mailed to you just write me at stoburen@homefrontsuccess.com
 

Driguy

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
279
I would say starting out. I would try to make the process as simple as possible. Prochem makes excellent direct drive systems great for people starting out and want a quality product to get their business moving along. A direct drive turn key package really offers a no thrills simple machine that will do all the carpet cleaning you want.

A company i used to work for would have this package installed in their vans. It was new technician idiot proof, and incredible durable.

http://www.prochem.com/Truckmounts.shtm

Just my $.02 from personal experience
 

Duane Oxley

Moon Unit
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,379
Location
Smyrna, GA.
Name
Duane Oxley
Hey, Mr. Smith... :wink:

Thanks for the recommendation...

Actually, I do have some used systems now. They start at $3,500 complete and go up to $6,500 complete. Right now, they are all L.P., but I have parts for an exchanger system that one of my customers used to own, that I could put together as well.

Duane
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
Thank you all very much for giving me all these suggestions.It is a lot to digest.I'll print them out and go over them.
Since you are taking so much time to help me, here's a little more of my background to complete the picture a bit more.
Physically I'm in pretty good shape, you wouldn't know I'm 50 and from watching what my carpetcleaner does I think I'm up to it.
I have a background in sales.I used to sell real estate and was a musician for the last 25 years.I like people and am not afraid to work hard.In real estate you are always dealing with people at the most stressful time in their lives,houses are high ticket items,there are a million agents in my area, it takes a lot of time to groom the relationships needed to generate a good income and you end up seeing everyone you meet as a potential client and that affects the way you relate to people.In a way you are never off work.
By comparison the carpet cleaning business seems much more straight forward.Not a whole lot of money involved, a small clean transaction not too much schmoosing neccessary.
My carpetcleaner works very hard, is good at sales and has a great reputation for reliability and quality work.He claims to make 100000.- a year net profit.Impressive!
I don't need to make that much.I have invested well in real estate and have a number of rentals. If I can net 2500.- to 3000.- a month that would be enough for me.I'm not trying to get rich cleaning carpets.Just generating a little cashflow would be what I want.From being in sales all my life( RE, Vacuum Cleaners door to door,cars, insurance)and playing music for a living which also requires a lot of networking and self promotion, I think I might be able to market myself well enough.
My plan is to do this for about 7 years maybe.By then I'll be able to sell my houses and I'll be OK.Again, I'm not trying to build up a major business.I just want to be a guy with a good truck who does quality honest work.
Here's another thing I'm wondering about.
Should I level with my carpetcleaner about my plans.I don't like to do things behind peoples backs.I like him and he is sort of a role model for me in this business.I could probably learn a lot from him but at the same time I'd be a competitor.On a small scale but still.
What should i do there?
Again, thank you very much for taking the time to help.
Roxy
 

Steve Toburen

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
1,912
Location
Durango, Colorado/Santiago, Dominican Republic
Name
Steve Toburen
Roxy,

The mere fact that you feel uneasy about "going behind the back" of your carpet cleaner tells you what to do. I would compliment him and ask him how you could coordinate with him to not steal his customers. My guess is there is plenty for both of you and he could be a real asset for you IF you are not viewed as a threat.

If he reacts badly to your honesty you are no worse off than you would have been by sneaking around him. But you will have done the right thing.

Steve

PS Be sure to cover the gist of your above post. As in, "don't wanna get rich, a few thousand a month, etc." Of course, once the fun starts and you get excited who knows ...
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
18,834
Location
Benton KY USA
Name
Lee Stockwell
Mental note: Keep your numbers to yourself when cleaning for an entrepreneurial client, and keep some of your tricks private...

...and if you have to drop "big numbers" mention replacement costs for parts.
 

Kevin B

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
1,457
Location
Coeur D Alene ID
Name
Kevin Bunce
I have had 3 cleaning customers start business's in the last 5.5 years on my own. I have coached each of them. One is a complete moron. 19.95 a room idiot. The other two are actually somewhat worth while. I encourage them to keep their prices up.
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
Yes, I was kind of surprized how much information my carpet guy was volunteering.That really got me inspired and I'm happy he did.I will give him a call and tell him about my plans.He is very established and I hope he'll be allright with it.
Hey Kevin, I see you are in Couer D'Alene.I'm in Hayden.Do you think there's still room for a guy like me in town?I checked the yellow pages to see how many carpet cleaners are out there and considering how much our area is growing it didn't seem too bad.What do you think?
 

Dolly Llama

Number 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
30,495
Location
North East Ohio
Name
Larry Capitoni
"I'm in nothern Idaho"

but your profile says "UT" Utah??

Curious though, if you were good at sales, why aren't you still in the sales gig?
My brother consistently knocks down 6 figures every year selling replacement windows.
Another good friend sells loans and does quite well
(you think real estate is competitive)

Their work is MUCH less physical than ours

"I'm 50 and from watching what my carpetcleaner does I think I'm up to it."


To someone watching a veteran, it "looks" easy.
Ride with him and do his work for a couple weeks.
You might hate the biz.

As far as equipment, keep your monthly equipment expenses as low as you can.
Pay cash if possible.
You can re-evaluate your position after a few years in the biz.
This industry is full of wide eye wonders that were talked into mega brand new outfits only to struggle and fail, or they're out at 1am cleaning greasy spoon restaurants for .08 a sf or slumlord properties for $40 bucks a pop to swing the monthly payment

..L.T.A.
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
I don't know how the UT got in there.As far as working in real estate finance, that part totally does not appeal to me.I've always hated math in school and it would just be too boring to me.Selling windows, I'd be an employee and that's not really what i want either.
Like I said there is something about this business that appeals to me.Small numbers and you don't have to look at everyone as a potential client and spent lots of time relating to people that you otherwise would not be interested in with the hope to get a listing in the future(which may never materialize anyway)and on and on.Always having to be available dealing with people who are stressing out in a major way....I just don't want to schmooze like that anymore.
I liked real estate when I was doing it in California.But here I would not want to get back into it.
So I'm looking at the possibility of buying a 1998 Dodge 3/4 ton 88000 mi with a hydramaster CDS 4.8 directdrive built in 1999 with 5100 hrs. The truck looks very clean and it comes with hoses and wands and all that.
The price is 11500.- I talked to the seller extensively and I like him.I get a feeling that he is a trustworthy person.I could pay cash on that and have no payments.The seller says that the truck has about 200000.- miles figuring in the 5100 hrs of operating time of the machine.Those miles are easy miles and do only involve the engine of the truck.So I figure even if I have to have the engine of the truck rebuilt (2800.- maybe?) I would still have gotten a good deal.
Does that sound OK?
Any advicce on that one?
 

Dolly Llama

Number 5
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
30,495
Location
North East Ohio
Name
Larry Capitoni
Don't have any personal experience owning a hydromaster, but I try and keep up with different equipment and get the "word on the street" about stuff and it's my opinion, HM makes a better direct drive than slide in.
Their direct drives have a pretty good track record from what I hear from the guys I know that run them.

FYI, "direct drive" = what you're mentioning. Uses the van motor for power.

"slide-in" would be the Boxer 427 you mentioned in an earlier post.
It has it's own motor and can be moved fairly easy from one van (or trailer) to another.

You don't want to know what I think of dUdge vans.
(yes I've owned one and know plenty peeps who have as well)
I used to work at Chrysler.

I wouldn't want to give more than $7000 for the outfit you described.

..L.T.A.
 

Doug Cox

Supportive Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
4,726
Location
Delavan, WI
Name
Doug Cox
Don't mind Larry and his opinion of Dodge vans. I have a 2000 w/ a HM CDS and it has been very reliable for me. The HM CDS is a very good machine, easy to diagnose and easy to repair. And if you have employees, a direct drive is a good choice. The shortfall with the Dodge vans and CDS machine is that they burn up the computers (3 for me) because they are mounted over the engine. My CDS is 23 years old and still humming along.
 

gimmeagig

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
727
Location
Hayden,Idaho
Name
Roxy
Hi,
I've got new information.
I talked to a TM shop in nearby Spokane and they told me they wouldn't recomment that particular setup.They said most cleaners prefer slideins over directdrives.
They said that an older CDS 4.8(1999) does not produce the heat that good a slidein puts out(190 at the machine vs 220 or more with the slidein) and an hour of running time for the machine equals 50 miles.That gives the truck very high mileage.
For a good used machine they recommend a Prochem Performer.They told me that's a highly desirable workhorse that can last 12000 hrs and up.
They have one with 8000 hrs and it comes with some stuff like hoses and wands.The price is 7500.- plus 350.- to install it.so if I could find a van for 4000.- to 5500.-I might have an OK setup? I'm trying to stay around 12000.- to 15000.-
Would that be a better way to go?
Thanks
 

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