The Vegetarian Thread.

Discussion in 'the Bird Room' started by Mikey P, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. Acp
    Acp

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    I wouldnt recommend feeding your dog a vegi diet, raw diet if anything.. if thats too expensive or too much work then a quality grain free feed. Can you feed a dog a vegi diet? sure they wont die... but they wont thrive either.

    Their systems have evolved to process animal protein, raw animal protein at that.


    Do any vegetarians here still eat salmon? I know some consider themselves vegetarian but still eat fish.. just not land mammals
  2. FredC
    FredC

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    Vegetarians do not eat flesh. Not even fish.

    Those are pescetarians.
  3. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    Are you sure the "outrage" is mine Fred?

    Some people do not agree that meatless diet is appropriate for dogs and will not cause health issues in the long run. Other than that everything, so far, is good.
  4. steve_64
    steve_64

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    Vegetables and fruit have flesh and are alive too.
  5. FredC
    FredC

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    Who are "some people" Ofer? You want a list of things "some people" believe?

    and there is no outrage here. I even stated that my dog eats meat. That doesn't change the fact that it isn't a requirement. The only study on the subject, although short, found that dogs can in fact thrive on a veg diet. So what are "some people" basing their opinions on?

    I'm referring to you calling people out for supposedly not realizing factory farming is animal abuse and the turning around and saying but "muh dog dog needs the meat" and "I only eat in SF" .
  6. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    I stand corrected.
    My dogs and cats are 4 hours drive, or shall we say 12 hours gallop from SF. Therefore, unfortunately, they can't visit the city by the bay, as much as they'd like to.

    Had they had the opportunity, I assume they'd rather sip some good coffee with a good old fashioned steak, over your oatmeal fortified dog food. And most likely be healthier. But I can't speak for them.
  7. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    Should Your Pet Go on a Vegetarian Diet?

    The risks of feeding vegan or vegetarian diets to your pet.

    By Roxanne Hawn

    This article is from the WebMD Feature Archive

    " From the WebMD ArchivesVegetarian Dog and Cat Food Warnings

    Lew Olson, PhD, author of Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs, makes this analogy: “Trying to feed a cat a vegan diet would be like me feeding my horses meat. You’re taking a whole species of animal and trying to force it to eat something that it isn’t designed to handle.”

    “For cats, it’s really inappropriate. It goes against their physiology and isn’t something I would recommend at all," says Cailin Heinze, VMD, a board-certified veterinary nutritionist and assistant professor of nutrition at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine.


    "For dogs, certainly vegetarian and vegan diets can be done, but they need to be done very, very carefully. There is a lot of room for error, and these diets probably are not as appropriate as diets that contain at least some animal protein," Heinze says.
  8. bob vawter
    bob vawter

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    Soooo..let me get the vegetarian
    rules straight here....
    Basically you can't eat anything with a face.....?
  9. FredC
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    Ok?

    It basically says exactly what I've been saying. Cats require animal protein dogs do not.

    It seems to come from a home prep angle of veg pet food because there are commercial preparations that remove the potential for error. "Probably are not as appropriate"? Based on what?

    It also lumps vegan and vegetarian together when they would be very different.
  10. FredC
    FredC

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    That is a good start

    but really no animal flesh ....even the ones that don't have faces like oysters
  11. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    The Potential Risks of a Vegetarian Pet Diet
    Just like for people, vegetarian diets for pets need to be managed carefully in order to ensure that the animal is getting all of the nutrients they need. Pets, for example, require high levels of protein; the Association of American Feed Control Officials -- an industry that establishes pet food standards -- puts an adult dog’s protein needs at 18% and a cat’s at 26%.

    And while vegetarians may argue that proteins can be found in the plant world, not all proteins are created equal. Different protein sources contain different levels of amino acids that are essential for overall health. Taurine, for example, is an important amino acid that dogs can synthesize if provided with the right dietary protein. Cats, however, cannot synthesize taurine, and thus must take it in through their diet (it is usually found in meat and fish). When a pet does not get enough taurine, they can suffer from taurine deficiency, which can result in heart disease and other serious medical issues.

    In addition, a vegetarian diet may be lacking in certain vitamins and minerals. While supplements are available, some vets dislike the idea of replacing naturally occurring nutrients with chemically synthesized ones.

    Most opponents will at least agree, however, that a vegetarian diet is possible for dogs, just not ideal. Cats, on the other hand, are not as well cut out for it. This is because cats are obligate carnivores who have higher protein needs and require meat to take in key nutrients that they can’t synthesize on their own.
  12. FredC
    FredC

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    Same thing
  13. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    The point is that there's a debate and some disagreement about it.
    in the ......community............. of course.
    And no long term research on vegetarian diet for dogs and its long term health effects that I know of, has been done.

    Not that most meat diets aren't really bad for dogs, but that's a whole new argument.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  14. FredC
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    Not really Ofer .

    The articles you posted say what I've been saying. What they don't do is mention the commercially available foods that overcome all the unsubstantiated maybes, probablies, coulds, etc.

    They also seem to forget that veg has two complete protein sources that are arguably nutritionally superior to flesh....eggs and dairy.\



    Just out of curiosity do you put this much thought into what your dogs are eating? Have you had them tested for vitamin deficiencies?
  15. Ofer Kolton
    Ofer Kolton

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    No we haven't tested them. But we buy quality food that does not use meat byproducts has all vitamins and vegetables as well. Not necessarily ideal but hopefully good.

    We all live in a busy world and not always have the time to do all the research and extra care that we'd like to. Just not enough hours in the day.

    So, like the rest of us, we try to make good educated (or semi-educated) decisions and understand that we may not always get it right. It is all a matter of some effort, compromise, mistakes and good intentions.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  16. Papa John
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    images.jpg
    Thought this would lighten the mood..:biggrin:

    I think alot of our health issues can be solved by our dietary choices.. i woukd rather change my diet then be a slave to the pharmaceutical companies.
    steve_64 likes this.
  17. bob vawter
    bob vawter

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    Fred are you an Oyster racist. ....
    Jus be cuz YOU Don know where it is
    ...
    Doesn't mean it ain't one.....huh?
  18. Jimmy L
    Jimmy L

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    No wonder this world is going to end soon ( According to Bawb) when we even care about what our pets eat.
    Used to be they stayed by the table ready to eat scraps that some how made it to the floor.

    IT'S THE FREAKING LIBERALS AGAIN! ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS! ANIMALS DESERVE THE BEST FOOD AVAILABLE! IT'S A CRAZY FOOKED UP WORLD! WHAT NEXT SANCTUARY CITIES FOR PETS?

    MORONS!
  19. bob vawter
    bob vawter

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    Yes the world will end soon....

    THEY'RE PUTTING UP A STATUE OF
    MARION BARRY IN DC.....

    I SWEAR TO GOD!

    MY wife jus ask me how far will the people let this shit go
  20. FredC
    FredC

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    The problem? Is it because he smoked crack? All the best mayors do. Maybe the statue will have a pipe...
    Willy P likes this.

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