The World's Greatest Rug ID Thread.

[Mikey P]

Lets see how long we can keep this thread going.


I'll be posting rugs I come across and ask that our resident Rug Gurus try and identify the rug, talk about it's common cleaning concerns and maybe suggest a few tricks.


Anyone can post pics or answer.


I'll go first



Belonged to the clients grand mother. she claims it is over 100 years old. Measures 18 x 15. Many cleaning tags on the back. No sing of die movement or loss. Lots of bare knots in TA's.

Five year old rug they brought back from Turkey.

Lightly soiled. I was surprised at how stiff the rug is. I guess it's first cleaning will get it to "chilax"..

Very worn all over, No known history.

Plain Jane?

lets hear it.


Thanks.

 

[rhyde]

1 Kashan 1950-1960’s should wash fine

2 Hereke modern black and green are sometimes a bleeding issue

3 Beluchi rug from Iran a little red bleeding the wash

4 Nepalese (Tibetan) rug should wash fine ..heavy fringe browning particularly if it has looped fringe on the other ends

 

[The Great Oz]

What you'll learn from a rug ID course is why these are what they are. Randy's very likely right about each, but I'll offer a couple of clarification questions:

The second rug could be a modern interpretation of this style made in Pakistan, India, China or even Turkey. What is the identifier that makes it a Hereki?

The fourth rug is made in the style of Nepal, but it has a soft wool look and evidence of a bleach wash that would make me think it an Indian copy. What identifies manufacture in Nepal?

PS: The third rug should be repaired ASAP before it loses more nap. If you don't offer this service partner with someone that does.

 

[Mountain View Carpet Care]

1 Kashan 1950-1960’s should wash fine

2 Hereke modern black and green are sometimes a bleeding issue

3 Beluchi rug from Iran a little red bleeding the wash

4 Nepalese (Tibetan) rug should wash fine ..heavy fringe browning particularly if it has looped fringe on the other ends

I need to hang out at Randy's place..

 

[Mikey P]

Randy/ Oz, do you use blotter paper or fresh white cotton to test for bleeding?


With Masterblend's dye lock, how long will it take to set the dye on the potential bleeders in this case?

 

[Jose Smith]

#3 could be a bleeder. The fringe is not very visible in the picture. Actually, the first three could bleed depending on what has been done to them by the customer. So never assume a particular rug is okay because you have cleaned one that looks like it before.

In fact, Bryan makes a good point. Be sure you have identified the rugs you clean correctly. In 2009, a Kazak can be made in China, a Heriz can be made in India, and a Bakhtiari can be made in Pakistan. I see these exact examples all the time. Don't rely on a pattern. This will get you into trouble quick.

Jose Smith

 

[Mikey P]

So Jose, you attain a positive ID on all rugs you clean before you get them wet?

 

[Jose Smith]

Of course. Some copies are definite bleeders. If I don't pay attention to that, I am going to work a lot of overtime trying to fix it.

Jose Smith

 

[Mikey P]

Hard to believe.





You must be one of those $10 a foot hacks. :shock:

 

[Greenie]

Hard to believe.
You must be one of those $10 a foot hacks. :shock:

I kinda like the term Rug Snob.

Very impressive Gentlemen.

 

[Jose Smith]

Why is it hard to believe? Why shouldn't a rug cleaner be able to identify a rug? I don't get that one.

Actually, I charge much less than you do according to your "sticker shock" post.

Jose Smith

 

[Mikey P]

Jose.

Now I dont want you to give away any of your sacred secrets but would you please entertain me and describe step by step how you go about getting positive ID on a particular rug.

What book, DVD, web sites, local gurus, magic 8 balls etc you use and how long it takes to nail it.

 

[rhyde]

The second rug could be a modern interpretation of this style made in Pakistan, India, China or even Turkey. What is the identifier that makes it a Hereki?

The fourth rug is made in the style of Nepal, but it has a soft wool look and evidence of a bleach wash that would make me think it an Indian copy. What identifies manufacture in Nepal?

It’s a Turkish Hereke you can even see the double edge at the bottom of the pic if it was Indian it would have better colors single edge, if it was Chinese it would have better colors and a more uniform & thicker salvage, colors and salvage are wrong for a Pakistani too. The Tibetan refugee rugs from northern India have a couple peculiar traits most don’t employ a split shed weave causing the knots the to be elongated taller than they are wide and the N.Indian rugs use machine spun wool. I think you need to get back in the wash pit!



If I had to choose between ID the rug or pretesting I’d take pretesting. I use the heavy duty paper towels you can get them at lows/home depot in the pain center they come in a big square box. That said I don’t test rugs very often or use dye loc.

 

[Mikey P]

That said I don’t test rugs very often or use dye loc.

Back up home boy...


Between you and Jose my head is gonna split.




are you using some super juice that prevents bleeding, cleans counter tops and cures cancer all in one?

 

[rhyde]

And impotency sadly ….. it doesn’t work on my male pattern baldness :roll:


I do make my own wash detergent 45 gallon at a time yes it does stabilize some colors but I use acetic acid for pH control & dye setting

 

[Mikey P]

I was at Arron's (ex Talisman employee) new plant down here in Watsonville tonight.

He had a 55 gal drum of acetic which I forgot to ask where he got it from.


You?

 

[rhyde]

yep,

Univar sells it they will deliver it to your door

 

[GRHeacock]

As I see it, the right cleaning formula is more important than identifying the rugs.

A high percentage of customers will tell you what they are- if that is important to them.

A typical conversation with my customers was like- "What will you charge me to clean my Sarouk?" (Or whatever.)

Or they say- "Can you clean my Heraz?" I say yes.

I give a price. They say yes or no. There is no haggling.

If the identification is not important to them, or they do not say what it is, or where they got it, it does not matter to me either.

A lot will say- "I brought this back from Nepal." (Or wherever)

This does not necessarily mean the rug is Nepalise, and plenty of fakes are made and sold to tourists who know nothing about rugs.

I have seen plenty of "silk" rugs that were mercerized cotton. "Serouks that were made in Hong Kong, etc.

The fake rug business is alive and well.

Gary

 

[Ken Snow]

While some of our wash people are quite good at identifying rugs the more important thing is for them to be able to identify postential challenges and handle them accordingly. I would bet that we do not test 1 in 1000 and even that might be high.

Ken

 

[Mikey P]

Ken,

How many rugs did "you" damage last year?

How many did you have to replace?


And how many did you clean?

 

[Ken Snow]

How many rugs did "you" damage last year?
The "you" in parens implies you mean me personally. None.

How many did you have to replace?
Every year we end up replacing a few rugs (usually very cheap crap), or giving a customer a GC to use in our showroom. Most often the problem was something pre-exsisiting that we did not see or note in our preinspection such as worn fringes etc. We end up doing whatever it takes to make the customer happy within reason.

And how many did you clean?
a little less than 33,000 rugs last year.

 

[Mikey P]

You as in Hagopian.


but YOU knew that.

 

[Aaron Richards]

IMO threads like this are part of what makes Mikeys Board the Worlds Greatest Carpet Cleaning Forum!

 

[Ken Snow]

quit giving Mikey a written BJ Aaron, his ego's big enough already.

 

[Aaron Richards]

Just thought his ego should match his hat size!

 

[rhyde]

I’ve never had to replace or compensate a client for a rug. Just a crapy suzani an employee decided to wash when I wasn’t around which remains a total mystery it wasn’t in the wash staging area or the rugs I wanted cleaned.

Make sure you have designated area for rugs ready to wash (tested, dusted)

 

[The Great Oz]

It’s a Turkish Hereke you can even see the double edge at the bottom of the pic if it was Indian it would have better colors single edge, if it was Chinese it would have better colors and a more uniform & thicker salvage, colors and salvage are wrong for a Pakistani too. The Tibetan refugee rugs from northern India have a couple peculiar traits most don’t employ a split shed weave causing the knots the to be elongated taller than they are wide and the N.Indian rugs use machine spun wool.

Thanks Randy, the why is important in rug ID, as so many rugs look similar and copies are made all over. Even older Persian rugs can be confusing, as the makers in one valley would alter their designs if the the rugs made in the next valley were selling better. Rug experts might stand around a rug arguing opinions of origin based on what characteristic they think is most important.

The relative importance of identification esoterica to the rug cleaner is another topic.

 

[rhyde]

That’s why most rug cleaners are marginal they really don’t care about what they are cleaning it’s a job, it’s money and often it shows. I’ve worked with people that have been cleaning rugs for 10+ years clueless know nothing about the rugs they work with, can’t be bothered to learn anything what’s that really say about that person

 

[Ken Snow]

Randy- I have many employees, who abolutely love rugs and care about them tremendously that may not know about the origin (country, they almost always know). Their passion is treating it right whether they are cleaning it repairing it, removing stains from it et. These same people have other passions in life besids learning rug pedigree esp when that pedigree has almost nothing to do with how they will care for it.

Ken
Ps I would bet that due to their handling & seeing thousands of rugs a month that they would be able to answer better than most, approx age, what type of home environment the rug has been in, instantly see problems, either already existing or those waiting to happen, etc.

Let's not be rug snobs folks, they are incredible works of art and I have dozens in my home, but frankly I have every one of them because I love their beauty and the way they make my home look and me feel. Some have very little actual value (under $500) and a few have some "hign" value, but they are all gorgeous to me.

 

[Art Kelley]

One could devote their whole life to the study of rugs, their origin, history, the minutia of the yarn and weaving procedures and other esoteric details. That's all well and good. My customers want to know if I can safely clean the thing where it lays or do they have to roll it up and take it to Hagopian, which can really be an involved process what with the large heavy furniture to remove and the size of the rug. My primary concern is colorfastness. I don't know or care about the details of the rug. All the rugs in Mikey's examples I'm sure I have safely cleaned among the thousands I have done. I always tell them it is better to take them in to the rug plant but many times this is all they want to do.