Triexta

Larry Cobb

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Larry Cobb
All is not lost as Bob Shaw who started Engineered Floors after he sold Shaw IND to Warren Buffett is now the third largest carpet manufacturer. He built his mill using PET and now has reintroduced SD nylon to the market. With oil prices down maybe nylon can make a comeback. All we can do is hope.

Bill;
What kind of % premium does the SD Nylon have for a 50 oz. home carpet style ??
 
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183
Mikey has asked for my opinion on this fiber.
The biggest complaint I see as an inspector is texture. The warranty defines texture-loss as 'lost of twist' and excludes marks left from vacuuming or other forms of shading. However, when it comes to momentary shading, many Triexta fibers suffer from dramatic changes compared to other fibers. Examples of this would include foot-traffic, but also vacuum marks and well defined marks left from the wheels of the vacuum cleaner. I think this is due to an inherent characteristic of the fiber, but can be aggravated by having a denier that is far lower than other fibers and by a lack of pile density in the making of the carpet. The extreme smoothness of the fiber is likely playing a part in this too. Maintaining its twist has always been a characteristic of the heat setting process and I do not see that problem.
The biggest dilemma for cleaners is Triexta is more oil-loving or oleophilic than Polyester. Polyester's absorption to water is between 0.4% to 0.8%; Triexta's is 0.1% . Fibers are either hydrophilic or oleophilic or somewhere in between. They cannot be both hydrophilic and oleophilic. To the degree that a fiber is hydrophobic or water-hating; it is oil-loving. Thus, it could be said that Triexta is four to eight times the oil magnet than Polyester.
Ten years ago or more, most Polyester carpets had fluorochemical protector that lower the surface tension of all liquids. This meant that this protector made Polyester hydrophobic and oleophobic. When Triexta came out, it had no protection. In many cases, a field application on a Triexta would not last because of its smooth hand. As of December of 2015, the second generation of Triexta has a protectant on it called Nanoloc. Mohawk applies Nanoloc at the factory and has not started selling it to us. As far was I have seen, none of our manufacturer's have claimed to make a protector that sticks to Triexta; although, I am sure that could. Thus, we have never seen a fiber before this that would not respond to some Scotchgard or Teflon.
It is my theory that detergents that have nonionic emulsifiers and lack encapsulants can cause an uncommon resoiling dilemma on Triexta. The reason is the nonionic emulsifiers can absorbed into the fiber. Normally when we get a sticky residue, the villainous surfactant is adsorbed onto the surface of fiber. Most rinsing detergents are designed to deal with adsorbed substances; not absorbed stuff. The solution for this problem has been to enrich the prespray with solvent or do a dry absorption method with a material that is more oleophilic than Triexta. We did such testing a number of years ago, where Bill Yeadon and Larry Cobb were apart of. Mohawk furnishes the soiled samples.
*As a footnote, liquid detergents are generally surfactant base or encapsulants. However, surfactant based detergents contain encapsulants to counteract the stickiness of some surfactants.
 

Onfire_02_01

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Jan 2, 2016
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Minnesota
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Jeremy Gray
Mikey has asked for my opinion on this fiber.
The biggest complaint I see as an inspector is texture. The warranty defines texture-loss as 'lost of twist' and excludes marks left from vacuuming or other forms of shading. However, when it comes to momentary shading, many Triexta fibers suffer from dramatic changes compared to other fibers. Examples of this would include foot-traffic, but also vacuum marks and well defined marks left from the wheels of the vacuum cleaner. I think this is due to an inherent characteristic of the fiber, but can be aggravated by having a denier that is far lower than other fibers and by a lack of pile density in the making of the carpet. The extreme smoothness of the fiber is likely playing a part in this too. Maintaining its twist has always been a characteristic of the heat setting process and I do not see that problem.
The biggest dilemma for cleaners is Triexta is more oil-loving or oleophilic than Polyester. Polyester's absorption to water is between 0.4% to 0.8%; Triexta's is 0.1% . Fibers are either hydrophilic or oleophilic or somewhere in between. They cannot be both hydrophilic and oleophilic. To the degree that a fiber is hydrophobic or water-hating; it is oil-loving. Thus, it could be said that Triexta is four to eight times the oil magnet than Polyester.
Ten years ago or more, most Polyester carpets had fluorochemical protector that lower the surface tension of all liquids. This meant that this protector made Polyester hydrophobic and oleophobic. When Triexta came out, it had no protection. In many cases, a field application on a Triexta would not last because of its smooth hand. As of December of 2015, the second generation of Triexta has a protectant on it called Nanoloc. Mohawk applies Nanoloc at the factory and has not started selling it to us. As far was I have seen, none of our manufacturer's have claimed to make a protector that sticks to Triexta; although, I am sure that could. Thus, we have never seen a fiber before this that would not respond to some Scotchgard or Teflon.
It is my theory that detergents that have nonionic emulsifiers and lack encapsulants can cause an uncommon resoiling dilemma on Triexta. The reason is the nonionic emulsifiers can absorbed into the fiber. Normally when we get a sticky residue, the villainous surfactant is adsorbed onto the surface of fiber. Most rinsing detergents are designed to deal with adsorbed substances; not absorbed stuff. The solution for this problem has been to enrich the prespray with solvent or do a dry absorption method with a material that is more oleophilic than Triexta. We did such testing a number of years ago, where Bill Yeadon and Larry Cobb were apart of. Mohawk furnishes the soiled samples.
*As a footnote, liquid detergents are generally surfactant base or encapsulants. However, surfactant based detergents contain encapsulants to counteract the stickiness of some surfactants.
James, Could you expound any more on the detergent line of thinking you expressed. I find it interesting.
 
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Adding encapsulants to a surfactant-based detergents is the rule; the exceptions are ones that do not. As far as the products that could cause a problem, most of them are designed for cheap apartment cleaning. Given that I am an instructor and should be generic, I think it is best to let the representatives of those companies comment about their products.
 

Zee

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.
Well Lee, I think that someone forgot to tell the carpet manufacturers that the price of oil went down. Of course, I haven't seen a drop in airline fares just a dramatic increase in their profits.



You sure, Bill? Some tickets that I normally see to fly to Europe on my rout are down from $1100-1400 to about $700. One of my brothers just flew last week from LAX to Frankfurt for $670... Another one of my brothers also last week flew from Brisbane Australia to Hungary for a decent price.
 
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Rick J

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rick Jones
So, is there a good way to clean this? I just had one that is in good shape mostly but a little older. I THINK is/was PTT. Better quality level. Thicker pile, and thicker yarns with a higher denier.?? Because , it is really nice,with a soft feel and the way that one spot did not clean I think it is Poly or maybe PTT.
Scrubbed really thoroughly with CRB prior to HWE.
Used Enzall, mixed as strong as I could get it into solution. 99.999% cleaned up really nicely cleaned up nicely. But that .001%!!!!
(In a home, not apt. But vacant re-hab. )
Has the typical wear where the sofa was in family room. Was a pit group. L shaped wear . Maybe 15 sq ft total.
Blue grey color carpet. Brown really bad in that small area. (when CRBing this area I boosted with a 02 product. (Carpet specific product, not bathtub stuff.) That area stayed brown. Hit that spot with Vac away's spot n boost. Did not help.
Went back next day and bonneted with OP O2 encapsulant and and absorbant pads with no change/improvement. Pads only got wet. NO SOIL pulled.
That brown just ruins the whole look and the job.
 

Lint Basket

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Centerville UT.
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Scott Mckay
It's interesting trying to find the correct chemicals to use to clean. I heard Larry Cobb say that powermax didn't do a whole lot of good on these carpets and that he had to boost the powermax with POG. Thats a bummer because that is what I like to use the most. So My question to Larry and everyone is what chemicals do we use? Obviously it sounds like we need solvents added.
 

The Great Oz

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Nov 25, 2006
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seattle
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bryan
What are your experiences in cleaning SmartStrand carpets? Can you tell the difference between PET polyester and Triexta, PTT?
The difference between PET and PTT after it has been in use for a few months is visual. Pop bottle has even poorer resilience and particularly in commercial spec will have traffic lanes that look like they have no nap. You can usually tell Triexta from other polys when cleaning - a more "grabby" fiber so more difficult to push a wand through.

Mostly the polys we see are exactly the same as they were 30 years ago - they lay down and stay down. There are two constructions being used that are dramatically different from the old days though: Fine denier, high pile-height; Extremely dense low cut pile.

Smartstrand Silk's fine denier yarn falls over even more easily and even though it high density compared to typical nylon carpet, is not high enough to prevent it showing traffic areas very quickly. It also has revived corn-rowing as a condition.

The woven poly carpet we see that uses extremely dense construction won't allow the nap to fall over, so the fiber actually works pretty well in this carpet.

Most ot the Pop bottle carpet I see is installed in new LEED-gold rated buildings. Since it's a recycled product, it earns extra green points. It usually gets replaced in the first year though, so, like a lot of green stuff, is kind of an ironic choice.
 
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Zee

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That's gotta be the STUPIDEST video presentation I have ever seen...

So many things wrong with it....forget it...not even wasting my time on it.
 
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Johnny

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That's gotta be the STUPIDEST video presentation I have ever seen...

So many things wrong with it....forget it...not even wasting my time on it.
What's the source of "recycled corn"? What's its first cycle?
 
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Zee

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Ok here...


Video shows Taf with the top of his head cut off...

"The fastest growing fiber". Is it alive? :lol:
He proceeds to talk about recycled corn....ummm I'm not sure I want to know how it was recycled.

He then attempts to rip a piece of yarn out with his fingers... Why not use some kind of tool to do that? Better yet, why not use the entire piece of carpet to demonstrate with?

Get the cheap paper plates from the break room....

He then shows -what we are told- used motor oil, where he supposedly dips the yarn... Why not use that camera and get close ups so we can see what he is doing? (and do the whole thing with a tool in hand so we can see better)

Then he puts the same yarn and rubs it in the magical solution. I guess the amount of chemical going up against the one piece of yarn could be translated into a 2387 gallon solution tank used up in an entire house carpet cleaning.

Another point: is the special secret sauce not needed to be rinsed off? Saying that the rest of the oil can be blotted off with a paper towel, doesn't help.

And lastly: is this something we can buy? Is this a cleaning agent that's is being sold already? If so, what is it? What's the name of it?

The main point of the video, according to Taf, was to say that we need to break the bond between the oil and the oil loving (oleophilic) fiber. I believe we all are aware of that. That's why we want to see what we can use to help with that process....

Back to the break room.. Take two.
 
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Mighty Phil

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Penrith
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Philip Mathot
Just had some dialogue with one of the carpet inspectors here. They are cleaning SmartStrand with the following process.
Pre-vac
Encapsulation with Cimex.
Dry vac with truckmount.
This is removing the notorious grey traffic lanes that you get with this stuff, and the dry vac of the excess moisture prevents wicking.

Quite a counter-intuitive process really. The mob that are selling this stuff here in Aust are still insisting you clean it with water ONLY.... which makes an explanation to the customer somewhat difficult when the retailer is making these claims.

Anyway..

Phil M.
 

Cleanworks

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New Westminster,BC
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Ron Marriott
Just had some dialogue with one of the carpet inspectors here. They are cleaning SmartStrand with the following process.
Pre-vac
Encapsulation with Cimex.
Dry vac with truckmount.
This is removing the notorious grey traffic lanes that you get with this stuff, and the dry vac of the excess moisture prevents wicking.

Quite a counter-intuitive process really. The mob that are selling this stuff here in Aust are still insisting you clean it with water ONLY.... which makes an explanation to the customer somewhat difficult when the retailer is making these claims.

Anyway..

Phil M.
Carpet inspectors actually cleaning carpet? If you cimexed it, there is no point to dry vaccing with a tm. It will dry on it's own in about 2 hours, unless you are over wetting it. Hard to do with a cimex
 
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Carpet inspectors actually cleaning carpet? If you cimexed it, there is no point to dry vaccing with a tm. It will dry on it's own in about 2 hours, unless you are over wetting it. Hard to do with a cimex

Don't be soo sure of that statement..... Yes it's hard to do in the right conscious minded person.... No it not hard to over wet in the wrong hands.... Anything in a careless person's hands is a bad thing...

My pops is a flooring inspector and he very rarely will clean anymore due to the fact he's got me (not to toot my own horn or anything).... He was also a iicrc instructor back in the 1990's...

So it's actually a plus for him coming from a cleaning background when doing inspections.... A lot of the problems are from improper in-house cleanings....Not saying they don't have they're fair share of manufacturing and installation problems as well.....
 
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Jimmy L

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Jimmy L
So what over the counter prespray should we use? What brand?
 

Zee

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.
So what over the counter prespray should we use? What brand?

I haven't tried it yet but I would assume that over the counter KY is what we'll have to start carrying when faced with the silkysmartytriexta crap and the accompanying declaration of the customer: "We were told that this carpet will clean up with water only and to not use chemicals on it"
 

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