Trouble Drying Bottom Framing Board

[tres davis]

Had an interesting scenario in a water damage that we did this week. Cool house built into a hill. Upside down build style. When you go in front driveway/2 car garage there is a pool/cabana area and that floor has kitchen/living/laundry/master. Then you go downstairs and there is 3 bedrooms/2 baths/living/2.5 car garage/water closet area. The water closet is quite large and has all the pool equipment/2 water heaters/hvac/lots of storage area. The water heater is sitting up about 3 feet off the ground so the top is almost to the ceiling. It backs up really close to one of the downstairs bathrooms and shares a wall with 2 rooms. Pipe burst and flooded for 3 days while customer was out of town. Went through normal drying process and made good progress on almost all areas. The only area where the moisture level was not dropping was on the bottom framing board running along the concrete slab. The bottom framing board on interior walls and the exterior walls that were not against the slab were drying normally. There was a 2 foot cut of sheetrock along the exterior walls to remove wet insulation (airflow was not a problem). When we noticed no progress on the board next to the slab we put extra equipment for a day and that did not help at all either. The moisture level in the concrete floor was normal.

Some other relevant information:
Customer recently purchased home and found mold when remodeling. Had a couple rounds of mold remediation and then was all cleared. I think Blackmon-Mooring did the remediation. They found out that the previous owner had a similar leak and did not properly handle the water damage. The areas that we were having trouble drying were the same areas where they had the mold remediation.

What are your thoughts on why this board was not drying?

I don't post a lot but I read a lot and learn from many of you. This might be an easy one for some of you but I have not encountered it before and neither had the adjuster. I thought it would be a good one to post and hear some responses and then I will tell you what we found. I have to go back tomorrow and confirm with moisture readings.

 

[Mikey P]

@Desk Jockey

 

[FredC]

sorry...stupid question.....penetrating meter right?

 

[Desk Jockey]

The sill plate? or up against the wall.

What is beneath the board? If against the wall is there foam board.

Any pictures?

 

[tres davis]

@Desk Jockey

yes

 

[tres davis]

The sill plate? or up against the wall.

What is beneath the board? If against the wall is there foam board.

Any pictures?

Im not sure the technical term. I think technically its a bottom plate as a sill plate refers to something that has an open cavity underneath. This board is flush into the concrete slab floor and there is nothing behind it except the foundation of the house. This picture is of the same board along the same foundation wall in the water closet. This area did not have mold remediation. The framework and foundation is identical to the ones on the bedroom that share the foundation wall and bottom frame board. The only difference is the walls in the bedrooms have insulation and sheetrock. The sheetrock has been cut all the way to the wet insulation and all wet stuff has been romved. Plenty of air flow.

 

[tres davis]

 

[FredC]

looks treated/coated (w/?) (assuming that isn't rot)possibly causing false positive

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree with Fred. Take a knife and scrape a little of the black coating off then use a delmhorst or other pin meter and take your reading. Compare it to a dry standard reading from an unaffected room. It could be the coating has some metals or something elses allowing to conduct. This would give you a false reading.

 

[tres davis]

The board in the picture was treated/coated with something. That board is now reading 8%. That same type board in the bedroom where the mold was previously has the same green thing on it but was also painted white. The studs going up are also painted white. We decided today that there must be some type of moisture barrier in the paint/finish that was holding moisture. We used a wire brush on an angle grinder to remove the white paint/green stuff in a small area. The wood beneath that was still pinning out all the way. So we determined that it was not a false positive. We grinded the white paint off of the studs running up the wall in a few test areas and there was no "green stuff" there and the wood beneath the paint was dry. So the wet area was only along this bottom board that had "green stuff" then painted white. We grinded it off enough to hopefully let it breathe and dry quickly. We had never seen this before and neither had the adjuster. Just wanted to put this out there for everyone so they could add it to their notebook. I originally thought it was moisture from slab or not enough airflow or dripping moisture from the pool above/behind foundation. Im pretty sure we are spot on now but will confirm tomorrow.

 

[tres davis]

Do you think its false reading if I grinded down to what is for sure wood? I took my test area down about an inch just to confirm that it wasnt still touching some sealer and giving false positive. But if they put something that penetrates wood with metals or something then I could be off.

Is it Blackmon-Mooring proprietary stuff to prevent anyone else from removing moisture so they can take over the world?

 

[dgardner]

Looks like pressure-treated lumber to me - if so the green stuff will be all through the wood - not just surface treated.

 

[Desk Jockey]

So the moisture came in from below & behind when not coated and became trapped by the coating?

Another reason not to apply topical coatings. Mold remediation is about removal of mold. Not killing and spraying coatings. Too much of that is done simply to have another line item to profit from. I'm sure it works well but was it necessary at all?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Steamatic is a large outfit I'm sure they knew what they were doing. $$$$$$$$$$

 

[tres davis]

So the moisture came in from below & behind when not coated and became trapped by the coating?

Another reason not to apply topical coatings. Mold remediation is about removal of mold. Not killing and spraying coatings. Too much of that is done simply to have another line item to profit from. I'm sure it works well but was it necessary at all?

yes, the water was 2 inches or so high for a few days so got below/behind the sealer and the sealer is now trapping the moisture. opened up the boards hopefully enough to breathe but even when you take a chunk out of the wood the green is still in there. i feel like it will breathe though as when first grinding it had a plastic smell and when i got deeper you could smell the sanded wood aroma

 

[tres davis]

Looks like pressure-treated lumber to me - if so the green stuff will be all through the wood - not just surface treated.

Pressure treated wood? Can you pressure treat wood once its already installed? Because most of the other boards are not like this. Only the areas that were in the mold area have this green stuff. Im not certain that they opened up all the walls during mold treat or not but will ask the homeowner in the morning.

I just want to get this right for the homeowner as they are good people and good customers. They kind of walked into a hornets nest with this house unfortunately. The adjuster seems understanding and wants to fix the problem and so do I.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Heat would probaby help expedite the drying as would minimizing your drying chamber.

But it sounds like you have it on the run.

Dessicants are also effective with difficult to dry materials.

 

[dgardner]

No, PT wood comes that way, but it's typically used where it comes in contact with concrete, I see it used for bottom plates a lot below grade.

 

[Big Jim]

View attachment 5253

The pressure treated base plate in this picture appears to be saturated. The slab and adjoining wall also visually appear to be wet or have a high moisture content. If this slab floor sat in water for three days I seriously doubt it is back to normal moisture content. The base plate is in contact with the slab, and if the slab has an elevated moisture content so will the plate. How did you check the slab moisture content? If the slab is the problem which I suspect it is you should use slow airflow (to ensure you don't choke off the cappillary action) and employ a desiccant to achieve the lowest possible GPP. As mentioned the smallest possible containment area around the affected material will be a big benefit. Based on the assumption above, even with slow airflow, low GPP, and containment it could take a number of days if not longer to achieve normal moisture content levels in the slab and thus the base plate. Always hard to say for sure without all the facts and more info, but based on the info presented this would be the most logical explanation.

 

[Jeremy N]

I'm with Chavez on this one. I'd shrink down the area as much as possible and use heat. I've had great luck using heat in situations like this.

BTW, where inn Texas are you?

 

[tres davis]

The pressure treated base plate in this picture appears to be saturated. The slab and adjoining wall also visually appear to be wet or have a high moisture content. If this slab floor sat in water for three days I seriously doubt it is back to normal moisture content. The base plate is in contact with the slab, and if the slab has an elevated moisture content so will the plate. How did you check the slab moisture content? If the slab is the problem which I suspect it is you should use slow airflow (to ensure you don't choke off the cappillary action) and employ a desiccant to achieve the lowest possible GPP. As mentioned the smallest possible containment area around the affected material will be a big benefit. Based on the assumption above, even with slow airflow, low GPP, and containment it could take a number of days if not longer to achieve normal moisture content levels in the slab and thus the base plate. Always hard to say for sure without all the facts and more info, but based on the info presented this would be the most logical explanation.

The picture I posted was from day 1 when the guys were extracting water. The board in the picture is also not the one giving me problems. It was just the only picture I had on my phone. All of those bottom boards running against the slab have some green stuff sprayed on them previously. The bottom boards behind the bedroom walls had the green stuff and then white paint on top of the green stuff. That combination created a very thich texture almost like gum and was holding the moisture in the board. The bottom boards that just had green were drying and the bottom boards that just had the white paint were drying fine as well.

I am heading back there shortly to confirm what I finally figured out. I will take some pictures so everyone can see what I am talking about. Hopefully this will help some people in the future. The adjuster was a seasoned adjuster dealing mostly with water damages and he said he had never seen it either. I also spoke with some friends in the business and they had not seen this.

 

[tres davis]

I'm with Chavez on this one. I'd shrink down the area as much as possible and use heat. I've had great luck using heat in situations like this.

BTW, where inn Texas are you?

austin area

 

[Desk Jockey]

Calcium chloride text will tell you if the slab has too much moisture. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Taylor-T...ide-3-Test-Value-Pack-625-POP-VP-HD/203419910

 

[HydroDude]

8% mc for a pressure treated bottom or sole plate is acceptable ...a sill plate is the bottom of a widow ( term. window sill)...

 

[tres davis]

Just checked it and moisture is coming down quickly since I sanded the goop off. Down to 25-35% already so should be dry soon.

 

[tres davis]

The bottom pic is a good one to see the difference. Wall on left has the green AND white. Wall on left is just the white paint.

 

[HydroDude]

BMS usually supplies crews with Zinsser Bin Primer/ Shellac... I'd reapply it and test it before closing in the wall, if your doing the repairs.

 

[J Scott W]

Good to know it is drying now that the coating has been removed. I storngly agree that directed heat (E-TES) would spped up the drying.

 

[ronbeatty]

If it is not structural, cut it out and replace. If it is structural, build a support structure and remove and replace.

 

[Jeremy N]

If it is not structural, cut it out and replace. If it is structural, build a support structure and remove and replace.

Screw all of that. Find a way to dry it.