Trying to understand defoamers

Old Coastie

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Like everyone else, I have to use defoamer when cleaning carpet.

When I used a portable and bucket, all I had to do was throw a scoop into the waste tank.

Now that I am using a Rotovac Ranger, I have a problem because there is no waste tank, it has an apo. So, I sprinkle powdered defoamer around the room before extracting it.

Two things:
1. I use a ton more defoamer than before. Is this because the 360i agitates more and the froth foams more?
Or is it because the powder must liquify to be effective, but only does so partially when sucked up?

2. Could I put a Hydroforce inline with the water, using defoamer-treated water to rinse with? I ask because I do not want to create some sort of residue issues by mixing defoamer into the rinse water.
Alternatively, could I just spray defoamer over the presprayed detergent, so that both are rinsed?

One of you gurus knows what actually takes place with defoamer.
I really need a protocol that works with the apo handicap, to leave a great job behind and no issues.
 

Mark Saiger

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I only have to use a defoamer when trying to reduce say a liquid soap spill....

I hardly go through a defoamer....sorry can't help more....

When we do have a soap spill....we use powder...and apply it on the area of concern...wet it down...and extract....
 

Old Coastie

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I guess I’m just unlucky, Mark. Seems like I’m pumping shaving cream outta these carpets. Then the Ranger sprays foam about ten feet out the vacuum exhaust.
 
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ruff

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You're not supposed to spray de-foamer directly on the carpet. So a no go on mixing in Hydro.
I think they are silicone based and it may interfere with the stain resist or maybe its a residual issue. Not sure.

What's the product you're using to clean? There are non foaming products out there.
Is it uniformly more foaming with the APO or just a few carpets, as that may have more to do with what was left in these specific carpets previously.

And yes, I assume that if the product is inclined to foam, it may foam more if agitated, it may also foam more if it goes through smaller openings or anything that creates more turbulence. Also an APO will remove the de-foamer every time it empties, while when you put it in a tank (larger dirty water capacity) it will keep working till you emptied the entire recovery tank.
 
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SamIam

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Like everyone else, I have to use defoamer when cleaning carpet.

When I used a portable and bucket, all I had to do was throw a scoop into the waste tank.

Now that I am using a Rotovac Ranger, I have a problem because there is no waste tank, it has an apo. So, I sprinkle powdered defoamer around the room before extracting it.

Two things:
1. I use a ton more defoamer than before. Is this because the 360i agitates more and the froth foams more?
Or is it because the powder must liquify to be effective, but only does so partially when sucked up?

2. Could I put a Hydroforce inline with the water, using defoamer-treated water to rinse with? I ask because I do not want to create some sort of residue issues by mixing defoamer into the rinse water.
Alternatively, could I just spray defoamer over the presprayed detergent, so that both are rinsed?

One of you gurus knows what actually takes place with defoamer.
I really need a protocol that works with the apo handicap, to leave a great job behind and no issues.






###### porky life I mean porty life. Keep using it save your vacs!
 

SamIam

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You're not supposed to spray de-foamer directly on the carpet. So a no go on mixing in Hydro.
I think they are silicone based and it may interfere with the stain resist or maybe its residual issue. Not sure.

What's the product you're using to clean? There are non foaming products out there.
Is it uniformly more foaming with the APO or just a few carpets, as that may have more to do with what was left in these specific carpets previously.

And yes, I assume that if the product is inclined to foam, it may foam more if agitated, it may also foam more if it goes through smaller openings or anything that creates more turbulence. Also an APO will remove the de-foamer every time it empties, while when you put it in a tank (larger dirty water capacity) it will keep working till you emptied the entire recovery tank.


Hopefully he’s sprinkling crystal defoamer! That stuff is the best!
 
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That's the downside of the CFX both small and larger base... Take Chem-spec Crystal Defoamer put it in a bottle and shake it around on the carpet your cleaning... It'll help some with the foaming issue... You don't have much clearance in the recovery tank to stop the consistent foaming problem...
 
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Cleanworks

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That's the downside of the CFX both small and larger base... Take Chem-spec Crystal Defoamer put it in a bottle and shake it around on the carpet your cleaning... It'll help some with the foaming issue... You don't have much clearance in the recovery tank to stop the consistent foaming problem...
Use Procyon. Doesn't foam.
 
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Jimmy L

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Like the others seek out products that don't foam.
Kleenrite's PCX powder emulsifier doesn't foam and it is a premium product that is more than that simple water softner procyon. Never got much foam from using CTI's extreme clean either use it as a prespray and an emulsifier.
 
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Cleanworks

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Like the others seek out products that don't foam.
Kleenrite's PCX powder emulsifier doesn't foam and it is a premium product that is more than that simple water softner procyon. Never got much foam from using CTI's extreme clean either use it as a prespray and an emulsifier.
Powdered products always seem to produce less foam than liquids. Be a good idea to have a small bottle of defoamer mounted on your wand with a hose attached through your hose cuff with a small trigger assembly. Periodically you could just trigger a little defoamer through your system. Important to clear the foam from the inside of your vac hose as that's where it's obstructing your air flow
 

Larry Cobb

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Defoamers are liqud silicone compounds.

They are difficult ot rinse out of carpet & should not be used directly on carpet.

A better solution is a special surfactant that defoams, and also cleans.

The one we use costs $15.90 per pound and ~1oz. /gallon of prespray would stop the foaming & enhance the cleaning.
 
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Goomer

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The very small waste tank combined with a continually running apo on the CFXR means that the tank contents will be constantly exchanged, and what is inside one moment, will not be there for long.

Because of this, any topical application of a defoamer product will have to be evenly dispersed across the entire carpet to maintain a dilution of active product in the small waste tank at all times.

Better to focus on the products used.

Only other way would be to craft some type of self contained defoamer delivery device and mount it directly into the tank.
 
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The very small waste tank combined with a continually running apo on the CFXR means that the tank contents will be constantly exchanged, and what is inside one moment, will not be there for long.

Because of this, any topical application of a defoamer product will have to be evenly dispersed across the entire carpet to maintain a dilution of active product in the small waste tank at all times.

Better to focus on the products used.

Only other way would be to craft some type of self contained defoamer delivery device and mount it directly into the tank.

Hate to burst your cherry Frankie, but foam in a hose will never make it back to your recovery tank... Sprinkle that defoamer around the room ya cheap azz...

You defeat the purpose of it being in the tank when you need it in the hose..
 
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Goomer

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Hate to burst your cherry Frankie, but foam in a hose will never make it back to your recovery tank... Sprinkle that defoamer around the room ya cheap azz...

You defeat the purpose of it being in the tank when you need it in the hose..

Only a real big boy can make my cherry burst.

I'm thinking the foam is being whipped in the very small waste compartment as opposed to the hose.

Having recently downgraded my porty waste tank capacity, I have noticed an increase in foam at times, at the same time noting the big increase in turbulence inside the tank with strong vac motors.

I got the sense they are related.

The clear lid allows seeing the water being whipped around and what appears to be it building foam.

I am assuming it is only worse inside the smaller capacity CFX.
 
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While it's a good idea, there is it's own setbacks with that machine... I'm just glad I didn't pay anywhere near the price of new.. We've shipped ours inter island to do mill correction work...

Basically pressure washing corridor carpets to get the spin finish out of it.. Spin finish is when the carpet mill's rinse mechanism is out of calibration which leaves the lubricant in the carpet as it's being made.. We sucked the shit load of foam through it.. lol
 

Goomer

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Put some fabric softener in this and Ziptie it to the vac stack with the sponge downwards, at the right level.

Being a true hack takes work.
 

Old Coastie

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I toued with the idea of making a port to squirt liquid into the line.

Guess I’ll just use a coarse salt shaker or something instead. My worry is that the crystals will dissolve on the carpet and cuse soiling issues later.
 

Mark Von*Lay

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All you have to do is soak a sponge in liquid defoamer And shove it to the back of the defuser tube... that's the ticket , trust me .then get the 15 gallon waste APO
 

Goomer

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Would that have the same effect if we put a soaked sponge in the filter basket of our waste tank?

It should.......have yet to try it on my porty...but it makes sense in theory.

I was trying to think of some way to slowly introduce a defoaming agent directly into my waste tank if needed and was thinking of using a sponge, but then the sponge handle thingies made perfect sense.

I have knocked down porty tank foam with a quick shot of fabric softener before in a jam, I see no reason why it wouldn't work if it can be delivered slowly over time.

I was considering fabric softener because it is a thicker liquid, not because I am a hack of course.
 

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