Will the super water BS ever end?
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
You’ll shoot your eye out.
Mikey P
Administrator
steve_64
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 13,371
You know you want one.
Does sodium citrate do that, chelate?
SamIam
Member
Got any decent before and afters?
I don’t get crunchy carpet using any decent product mixed properly!
I’ve cleaned my own house 3-4 times a year with every different combo with soft water!
Detergent rinse, acid rinse, polymer rinse!
Resoil with pretty much all products is about the same.
But I’ll try your test on carpet it’s like $30 for 60 gal of R/O water I’ll clean half my carpet with that and the other half with water softener last step and slop and gobble or Saiger free!
Does RO need a rinse agent?
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Dolly Llama
Number 5
LOL
so how much would two cups of water in a 9" pie pan be equivalent to left on carpet??
... like 2 inches of standing water left on carpet....
better comparison would be to use just enough water in pie pan to evaporate in 12- 24 hours
cause that's all the water that's left
but hey, don't let realty get in the way
..L.T.A.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Soft water does not remove solids just exchanges them.
Old Coastie
Supportive Member
Does anyone know what emulsification means?
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Hack Attack
Member
Coming from a hort background and seeing the massive difference side by side in performance of pesticides where the only variable was water quality, Im a big believer of soft water
Seeing how RO works on windows gives it credibility (still not same as carpet)
Hearing ones like Jim Pemberton talking about distilled water on upholstery give it credibility (special circumstances and problems still not carpet)
Do I think it would make a "NOTICABLE" difference day in and day out on every job?
Im a sceptical fence sitter..
Seeing how RO works on windows gives it credibility (still not same as carpet)
Hearing ones like Jim Pemberton talking about distilled water on upholstery give it credibility (special circumstances and problems still not carpet)
Do I think it would make a "NOTICABLE" difference day in and day out on every job?
Im a sceptical fence sitter..
Sierra Clean Care
Member
Larry, of course one would never leave 2 cups of water standing in the same area as a 9” pie plate.... the point was simply to illustrate how much shyte IS in the water we use.... I’m not trying to sell you guys on it, I just find for ME, it makes a big difference. I use less chems (better for me, my clients, and the environment), and I’m finding that my call back rate has gone to zero. I use it because I believe in all the benefits.... but hey, believe what you want....LOL
so how much would two cups of water in a 9" pie pan be equivalent to left on carpet??
... like 2 inches of standing water left on carpet....
better comparison would be to use just enough water in pie pan to evaporate in 12- 24 hours
cause that's all the water that's left
but hey, don't let realty get in the way
..L.T.A.
Dolly Llama
Number 5
my point was, it looks HUGELY dramatic the way you presented it .
(and I'll bet that's how RO system salesmen present it too)
when in reality based on volume left in CCing, it ain't so dramatic
were you using unconditioned municipal or well water before, or water softener condition water before going RO?
thanks
..L.T.A.
Sierra Clean Care
Member
Plain tap water, no softener. The same water I used to fill my TM with....
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
You could say that. I am Co owner of a water treatment services company.
NOw I only install a few a year of that.
We do water softeners, small and medium reverse osmosis units, carbon units, some well pumps and such.
The service side of that biz was not the greatest money making venture and sucked the profit out of the installs mostly because people are lazy and don’t refill brine tanks or just unplug the unit to use the outlet for something else and don’t plug it in,but they said the system was malfunctioning.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I believe the use of ro water for cleaning presents to much waste especially over the years when we were in a drought.
I do believe it would clean Great but soft water also cleans much better with much less detergent needed to accomplish the same result.
That said my water that we use to clean with in my area doesn’t have a high tds count so not a huge deal, but in some parts of the country the count is very high and makes a big difference.
TDS is just a number of solids it really makes a difference what those solids are.
A simple test sent in would identify those solids and guide you as to what type of filtration/ exchange or reduction is needed to achieve the level you are needing to achieve your goal.
I do believe it would clean Great but soft water also cleans much better with much less detergent needed to accomplish the same result.
That said my water that we use to clean with in my area doesn’t have a high tds count so not a huge deal, but in some parts of the country the count is very high and makes a big difference.
TDS is just a number of solids it really makes a difference what those solids are.
A simple test sent in would identify those solids and guide you as to what type of filtration/ exchange or reduction is needed to achieve the level you are needing to achieve your goal.
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Lint Basket
Member
Using deionized filtration doesn't waste a drop of water for the user. RO is wasteful and softwater takes calcium/magnesium and exchanges it with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda).
Sierra Clean Care
Member
Almost correct. It exchanges it for sodium ions....
Sierra Clean Care
Member
Typical RO systems usually have an exchange rate of 1:1.... the system I have has an 8:1 ratio.... now, if I’m using 1/5 the amount of chems, which is worse, wasting one gallon of water for 8 gallons of product, OR, dumping 4-5 times as much chems (cleaning carpet, tile etc) down the drain? Which is the less of the 2 evils?....
Tom Forsythe
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2006
- Messages
- 486
The differences between deionized, R.O. and soft water compared to hard water are undisputable. The hardness of the water from Virginia Beach and Salt Lake City are significant as Salt Lake Water is between 4 or 5 times harder than Virginia Beach. In our production plant we use soft water and deionized water. Deionized water is essential when mixing products with hydrogen peroxide. We also use deionized water in making our upholstery protector and leather products to prevent the development of water rings if unevenly applied as they dry. There are other specialty products that we use deionized water as well. The majority of our formulas, however, we make with soft water.
I have not done the research necessary to make any comments on the differences between deionized, R.O. and soft water. I would point out the purpose of rinsing is to remove oils and soils which are noticeable visual residues. There are also unseen residues some of which re-soil (some surfactants, some solvents like d'limonene and hygroscopic builders like citric acid) and some do not (like minerals). A good cleaning does not leave re-soiling residues. Post protective treatments add good residues which provide soil, stain, oil and water resistance.
I have not done the research necessary to make any comments on the differences between deionized, R.O. and soft water. I would point out the purpose of rinsing is to remove oils and soils which are noticeable visual residues. There are also unseen residues some of which re-soil (some surfactants, some solvents like d'limonene and hygroscopic builders like citric acid) and some do not (like minerals). A good cleaning does not leave re-soiling residues. Post protective treatments add good residues which provide soil, stain, oil and water resistance.
Lint Basket
Member
Here is an article that explains it pretty well.
"Soft water is water containing low levels of hardness ions. However, distilled water, reverse osmosis water, de-ionized water, and rain water do not produce the slippery effect on your skin, even though all those types of water contain virtually zero hardness minerals. Water that has been chemically softened by the ion exchange process used by a salt based water softener removes the so-called “nuisance minerals” (often defined as calcium, magnesium, iron and manganese) because they can be associated with staining and scale formation. These minerals occur dissolved in water as bivalent ions. During the “softening” process one (1) of these nuisance mineral ions gets replaced by two (2) sodium ions (or potassium ions depending on the type of salt used during regeneration). The by-product of this process it the creation of a proportionate amount of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) in the water. The harder the raw water, the slicker the softened water. Sodium bicarbonate is a surfactant, which imparts a soft or slick feel to the water. Experience this yourself by adding baking soda to water with virtually any hardness –the water will feel soft."
Desk Jockey
Member
How much chemical are you talking about? We usually go through half a hydroforce container (1-gallon) on a good sized job. Are you using a lot more than that?
*Although we don't do many trashed or restaurants
Im sorry but we have several companies here pushing the "magic water" very very hard... customers ask me about it and after I explain one simple thing they realize its BS
one dude goes on and on in his videos basically telling customers that unless you use "magic water" the carpet is full of scum and minerals etc..
Heres the problem with that business plan. The second the customer comes back to reality and realizes they have been brushing their teeth, washing their clothes, washing their dishes, taking showers, washing babies etc etc
all with the horrible filth scum water... their entire life.... then your entire sales pitch is out the window lol
our tap water here is less than 30ppm, which is very soft and approx 7.5pH.
for window washing with a WFP it works okay... but WFP window washing is kind of a hack job anyways compared to doing it by hand.
one dude goes on and on in his videos basically telling customers that unless you use "magic water" the carpet is full of scum and minerals etc..
Heres the problem with that business plan. The second the customer comes back to reality and realizes they have been brushing their teeth, washing their clothes, washing their dishes, taking showers, washing babies etc etc
all with the horrible filth scum water... their entire life.... then your entire sales pitch is out the window lol
our tap water here is less than 30ppm, which is very soft and approx 7.5pH.
for window washing with a WFP it works okay... but WFP window washing is kind of a hack job anyways compared to doing it by hand.
Hack Attack
Member
Yeah I think its ok to highlight a point of difference over a competitor, but if you deliberately oversell that point and try to discredit another in the process your a sad person who needs to do some soul searching
Cleanworks
Moderator
Dammit, where's my soul? It was right here a minute ago.
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I ask people that we sell systems to, what are your goals with the water?
From there you can decider which way to go.
Most will go with a softener for the whole house and 1 or 2 undersink ro units for the kitchen and master bath.
Never had a long term complaint just new customers asking when the slipperiness feelin goes away and I tell them about 3 months.
As for cleaning, only 1 truck has a softener on it and we can’t/never have been able to tell the difference between the two truck even while cleaning large banquet rooms side by side.
If there was a difference for US then all of the trucks would have softeners.
Any of the various treatments or processes will help cleaning ability of your main solvent(water),so keep that in mind if you are looking for a cleaning edge or whatnot that is real.
From there you can decider which way to go.
Most will go with a softener for the whole house and 1 or 2 undersink ro units for the kitchen and master bath.
Never had a long term complaint just new customers asking when the slipperiness feelin goes away and I tell them about 3 months.
As for cleaning, only 1 truck has a softener on it and we can’t/never have been able to tell the difference between the two truck even while cleaning large banquet rooms side by side.
If there was a difference for US then all of the trucks would have softeners.
Any of the various treatments or processes will help cleaning ability of your main solvent(water),so keep that in mind if you are looking for a cleaning edge or whatnot that is real.
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ruff
Member
Fortunately (or not) most people do not live in Petri dishes.
I will believe the hype if I see a difference in re-soiling levels. Many years ago I made a mistake and cleaned with about 5 times the recommended detergent ratio. At the time I was using Dry Slurry (Prochem) and realized the mistake only a few days later.
I was sure that when I returned the next time the carpet will look really bad. It didn't. A few years later the carpet still looked great and stayed very clean.
It seems like well formulated products and good cleaning technique go a long way towards good cleaning results.
I will believe the hype if I see a difference in re-soiling levels. Many years ago I made a mistake and cleaned with about 5 times the recommended detergent ratio. At the time I was using Dry Slurry (Prochem) and realized the mistake only a few days later.
I was sure that when I returned the next time the carpet will look really bad. It didn't. A few years later the carpet still looked great and stayed very clean.
It seems like well formulated products and good cleaning technique go a long way towards good cleaning results.
Desk Jockey
Member
#1 for a reason!
