0 Residue?

[Lint Basket]

How do we compare rinsing pre-spray back out with A) Tap water B) Soft Water C) D.I. water, and than D) Emulsifier added to A-C to compare which leaves the most Residue?

Everyone seems to have opinions but it would be cool to know for a fact which rinse works the best.

I have heard some say that they can really tell a difference from R.O. at 7 tds compared to D.I. at 0 tds. in their cleaning results.

 

[Lint Basket]

Tap water tds will vary by location. Salt Lake City Utah is 220 tds. Phoenix Arizona can flux from 300 to 500 tds.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Scott;

Both RO and DI water will provide a SUPERIOR rinse.

I don't think the difference between a TDA of 7 and 0 (?) would be detectable.

We plan on indroducing a Dynachem TM with an RO system,

at the Experience Convention in Dallas April 24th.

Larry

 

[Lance Golden]

Scott, I was wondering where you are getting the phx #'s? I have seen higher. It also depends on the time of year. The summer months, more chlorine is added, more tds...

 

[Lint Basket]

Scott, I was wondering where you are getting the phx #'s? I have seen higher. It also depends on the time of year. The summer months, more chlorine is added, more tds...

Hey Lance, I was talking to Kemp Waterfall about his filtering system and comparing his tap water vs. mine in Utah. I can't believe the swing you guys have in the summer months. Do you ever run chemicals in your rinse or always just filtered water ?

 

[C&S]

soft water

I always try to use softened water. Tds is usually 25 or less, but city water here has tds of 400 ish.

I can definitely tell the soft water rinsed better and leaves the carpet softer once dried.

I usually run a rinse agent just to be sure it pulls out all my cleaner and whatever residue the customer already had on the carpets. (Spotter, smoke, fertilizers, etc)

I have used plain soft water on not so nasty jobs, works just as well.

(Results my vary)

If you spray to much ps. Or a use a solvent it won't rinse as well. And flushing is different across the board.

4 jet vs 2 jet wands, flow, heat, personal cleaning stroke and speed.

Mikey double strokes on dirtier carpet.

 

[ruff]

I don't think anybody has a 100% right answer. Unless a whole lot more research by a non interested (financially) party is involved.
So we can only tell by our personal experience.

Softer carpet due to cleaning with soft water is most likely due to less mineral in water. Does soft mean cleaner and stay clean longer? In my opinion not necessarily.

Will a reasonably diluted detergent rinse that was properly formulated add to faster re soiling?- In my experience tested on hundreds of home- It does not.

Most detergent formulations are designed to work throughout the country. In a sense they are a compromise, as different parts of the country have very different water characteristics. So they try to design a product that will work everywhere. Most contain water softeners in them. So, not considering what happens to the plumbing of our machines, is soft water really necessary for cleaning purposes, if water softeners are formulated into the detergent?

Water is softened (if I am not wrong) by increasing salt content and the ability of the water to contain (attach, not the correct scientific terminology) to minerals. So when cleaning with soft water, we are leaving less minerals but the water contains more salt. Is the effect of the salt left in the carpet any different than the detergent? Better? Worse?

Also there's the law of diminishing returns. Let us say that by using these processes, we'll achieve a 5% improvement in re soiling. Is it worth it? What other effects do water softening or ionizing have on carpet durability, dye stability, re soiling, etc. does it have?

In my personal experience, using soft water, acid rinses and just water rinse, I did not see any improvement in looks, long term cleanliness and lower re soiling rate, in comparison to a mildly diluted detergent rinse. No improvement what so ever. The improvement that I did see when using the detergent rinse was: Less call backs (statistically insignificant) as I get very few, less returning stains and definitely substantial time saving in the cleaning process.

 

[Lance Golden]

Scott, I always run RO/DI only as a rinse... We will be introducing a VERY affordable RO/DI setup in next couple of weeks, that can be installed as a wall mount, with options... $ 1900- $ 2500

 

[C&S]

Water softners use salt to rinse the resin beads inside them. Not add it to the water. The salt is rinsed out with the recharging cycle.

The more water you use the softener the more mineral attaches to the resin. Salt that is used goes down the drain.

 

[ruff]

Idealized image of water softening process involving replacement of calcium ions in water with sodium ions donated by a cation-exchange resin.

 

[C&S]

Yes, it's an ion exchange, but the water coming out usually has a tds of 20 or so, parts per million. Nearly untraceable amount of sodium. The salt releases the mineral that the resin catches.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We will be introducing a VERY affordable RO/DI setup in next couple of weeks, that can be installed as a wall mount, with options... $ 1900- $ 2500

Very? Ouch especially if you run multiple trucks. While that is half of what previous systems I'd looked at before run, its still quite pricey. Maybe as a owner op its a better deal but I think I'm stuck with soft water until prices drop more.

 

[C&S]

The ro system I have uses up to 4 gallons to make one pure gallon, via a membrane. Is that system going bypass slot of non pure water?

 

[GeneMiller]

Yes, it's an ion exchange, but the water coming out usually has a tds of 20 or so, parts per million. Nearly untraceable amount of sodium. The salt releases the mineral that the resin catches.

I have a meter for testing water because I have hydroponics. My ro water is usually at 9 starting at 116. However I tested a friends who is on a water softener and his was over 1100 ppm. I have to believe this is sodium introduced into the water. He did get his system checked and I'm supposed to recheck it. My father-in-law was also told by his heart doctor not to drink soft water because it is high in sodium.

gene

 

[rwcarpet]

Sometimes I think cleaners put TOO much thought into their process. I can't atest to water in Texas/Southwest. I know our Ohio water and simply softening it is all we need. I've got 6000 hours on the Genesis and have NEVER descaled it....never had too. Always used soft water. I do use Procyon as a rinse though. I guess we are a bit luckier here in the mid-west.

How much water is used in the RO system? Is it as much as 4 gallons to make 1 gallon of RO? That wouldn't go over well in Cali.

I remember actually putting Calgon into our Steamway Turbo Matic, back before water softeners became all the rage. 77-78-79.

 

[GCCLee]

Sometimes I think cleaners put TOO much thought into their process.

I remember actually putting Calgon into our Steamway

Yes, i will admit to doing this at times. Its a bad bad habit


Did the Calgon take u away? Lol


Sent from da parking garage of dee detention center

 

[C&S]

I have a meter for testing water because I have hydroponics. My ro water is usually at 9 starting at 116. However I tested a friends who is on a water softener and his was over 1100 ppm. I have to believe this is sodium introduced into the water. He did get his system checked and I'm supposed to recheck it. My father-in-law was also told by his heart doctor not to drink soft water because it is high in sodium.

gene

I just tested my softner water again, it's 19ppm. On tds meter here.

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[C&S]

My ro water is zero.
My water before softener is 452.

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[C&S]

I don't really want to get into battle here, I'm just stating my tds is very low here from my softner, I have a whole house water filtration system that goes before the softner that filters to 5 microns, so maybe others don't have this and get higher reading because of actual solids in water. Doesnt matter to me, I know the soft water I use works well and leaves the carpet very soft, I still however use a rinse agent. Cant hurt neutralizing the ph of the prespray.

Zero residue, I think we should get a chemist to chime in here. At least on their own products. Without bashing other peoples/companies products.



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