steve frasier
Supportive Member
will it hurt the blower on my Thermal Wave II
17" of vacuum
- Thread starter steve frasier
- Start date
steve frasier
Supportive Member
17" would be with the vac port plugged pre heating the blower to get the water temp up during warm up
I think it pulls 15" with the hybrid glided TI wand on residential carpet but would have to check
I think it pulls 15" with the hybrid glided TI wand on residential carpet but would have to check
How long do you "preheat" in this condition?
Heat is the name of the game. An advanced truckmount would have a temp gage on the blower exhaust.
Blowers are tough, 17"hg wouldn't scare me, but it is all about managing the heat generated, but I believe ALL blowers with blower heat exchangers run hotter than the same blower with no HX.
Heat is the name of the game. An advanced truckmount would have a temp gage on the blower exhaust.
Blowers are tough, 17"hg wouldn't scare me, but it is all about managing the heat generated, but I believe ALL blowers with blower heat exchangers run hotter than the same blower with no HX.
Larry Cobb
Member
Greenie;
As one manufacturer who has measured temperatures of blower exhausts, I agree with the need to check them.
However, this statement is NOT TRUE:
Both HX's and Silencers add restriction to the vacuum system. The amount is dependent on the actual flow capability & design.
Without knowledge of the entire system, no one should be recommending the vac levels to operate at.
BlueLine should be consulted.
Larry Cobb
As one manufacturer who has measured temperatures of blower exhausts, I agree with the need to check them.
However, this statement is NOT TRUE:
Both HX's and Silencers add restriction to the vacuum system. The amount is dependent on the actual flow capability & design.
Without knowledge of the entire system, no one should be recommending the vac levels to operate at.
BlueLine should be consulted.
Larry Cobb
G
Guest
Guest
I disagree with greenie. I don't think it is needed. just like a rebuild or replace a blower is needed when belts are being eaten. Ya need to evaluate the situation. A temp gage to the blower is a waste of money. Sure it would be nice but how many blowers has one replaced in the time you have cleaned carpets? Myself 1 time but I put a blower on my machine that was 15 years old and already had bearing issues. The blower went 2 years before breaking. All my other blowers have never gone bad.
also the biggest factor to the original question is, what percentage of the time is the blower actually running at 17hg. i can block the vac hose with my hand and getter up to 19. my machine regularly runs 14-15 and sometimes 16-17. in the real world 17hg would not be reached for long periods if at all. i would also be more concerned with belts and shaft bearings
They're set at 14hg from the factory. 16hg shouldn't be a problem as it rarely reaches that point anyway. Especially if you're using a glide as it doesn't lock down. However, ASK Blueline first. When you're hovering around that 'max' lift setting (16hg) the biggest issue is your belts. Your blower is spinning at 2400rpm which will help. However, when you get into the higher speeds and higher lift settings belts can be a chore to keep locked down. Then what guys do is tighten them, then tighten them some more until the problem goes away. Except with a few months, maybe even a year they have a whole new problem. The load bearing inside the blower is out of round and shot. The blower will lock up or start knocking. Keep it greased well. If you cook the grease it will run out the weep hole and you'll have no protection. One nice thing about a Sutorbilt Legend is you can change the load bearing fairly quickly without removing the end plate with a little ingenuity. Just keep that sideload down on the bearing by going easy with the belt system.
steve frasier
Supportive Member
my vacuum was poor one day and I couldn't figure out why at the moment so I adjusted the vacuum break
then I seen that that the dump valve was still open so I closed it and the vacuum went to 17"
machine had a lot better heat recovery, higher heat and stronger vacuum at 17" but I have since turned it back down to 15"
just one of those dumb moments, I will leave it where it is now but was just curious if it would hurt the blower if I left it where it was
Thanks guys
then I seen that that the dump valve was still open so I closed it and the vacuum went to 17"
machine had a lot better heat recovery, higher heat and stronger vacuum at 17" but I have since turned it back down to 15"
just one of those dumb moments, I will leave it where it is now but was just curious if it would hurt the blower if I left it where it was
Thanks guys
I have been running 17" for a very long time. I have over 2500 hours since I went up to 17 and have had no problems with heat, seals, or any other blower problems. I have a Cobb TM and I agree with Larry, I would make this decision depending on the specific system.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
If this were an automotive message board, the equivalent question would be:
8000 RPM. will it hurt the engine on my mustang?
Just like a rev limiter on a engine, the vac relief valve setting on a Truckmount serves a purpose. The setting is the maximum allowed to preserve the longevity of the components. The TM manufacturer in cooperation with the blower manufacturer sets a limit for a reason.
Absolutely you will find users who obviate the setting and find that they have no problems. Good for them. They indeed may have conditions and fortune on their side when the mean time between failure shines on their shoulder.
However, I think in most cases raising the setting is less productive than looking for CFM losses and "patching" them first. Often a spring loaded relief valve is wasting a tremendous amount of vacuum efficiency by opening partially at lift levels normal to cleaning. By setting the stock valve higher, you are attempting to shut down these losses, but at a detriment to safety of the components.
Try a relief valve valve type, like a Bayco or a Kunkle, set at the safe stock setting, and I think you will reap all the benefits you are looking for, without delving into higher lift settings which are beyond the established redline.
8000 RPM. will it hurt the engine on my mustang?
Just like a rev limiter on a engine, the vac relief valve setting on a Truckmount serves a purpose. The setting is the maximum allowed to preserve the longevity of the components. The TM manufacturer in cooperation with the blower manufacturer sets a limit for a reason.
Absolutely you will find users who obviate the setting and find that they have no problems. Good for them. They indeed may have conditions and fortune on their side when the mean time between failure shines on their shoulder.
However, I think in most cases raising the setting is less productive than looking for CFM losses and "patching" them first. Often a spring loaded relief valve is wasting a tremendous amount of vacuum efficiency by opening partially at lift levels normal to cleaning. By setting the stock valve higher, you are attempting to shut down these losses, but at a detriment to safety of the components.
Try a relief valve valve type, like a Bayco or a Kunkle, set at the safe stock setting, and I think you will reap all the benefits you are looking for, without delving into higher lift settings which are beyond the established redline.
Larry Cobb
Member
KBrenny;
The Dynachem TM has a Sutorbilti blower designed for 16" continuous and 17" intermittant.
It has a low restriction silencer & HX on the outlet side of the blower.
Larry Cobb
The Dynachem TM has a Sutorbilti blower designed for 16" continuous and 17" intermittant.
It has a low restriction silencer & HX on the outlet side of the blower.
Larry Cobb
G
Guest
Guest
Shawn I have to disagree, the kunkle and bayco are no better than a relief valve you described. They are intermittent. Pos if you ask me and way overpriced. The cleaner can and find less expensive alternatives that work better.
steve frasier
Supportive Member
it is now set at 14" and pulls 13.5" with the wand to the floor, works just fine
the valve on my 450 MAXX stuck today and was pulling 24", I couldn't move the wand on a back stroke on the commercial carpet
the valve on my 450 MAXX stuck today and was pulling 24", I couldn't move the wand on a back stroke on the commercial carpet
What is 'Free Flow'? I've watched that come up in a few posts but have never seen what it is Specifically... 1) A blower inlet pulls air. 2) It can only pull so hard before internal damage could occur. 3) At that pre determined point by the manufacturer, there needs to be a protection device. 4) Logic would suggest that for our application, an air leak before that point isn't preferable as we like our 'relief' at the end of a hose. What am I missing? If the motor, drivetrain etc.. can't handle the extra vacuum load that's one thing. However, let's say all is a go... Then what is the problem? I'm talking mechanical specifics.
G
Guest
Guest
Matt , they are over priced. Lets say you set the HG at 16 atm and the Kunkle /Bayco vac relief only opens at 16. What HG are you getting at the wand? With a glide and without a glide?
Larry don't answer this please.
Larry don't answer this please.
I'll add, I have no vested interest in Kunkle's, Bayco's or anything else. I don't sell them nor am I going to. And I'm not in any way trying to be critical of anyone here, I'm just trying to understand the thought process of those opposed is all..
G
Guest
Guest
Rex guys thats where we were all mistaken . My machine is plumbed on a 47 blower 3 in from the blower with about 6 to 10 inches to the waste tank.to the silencer 3 inch out .
100 feet of vacuum hose to a 1.5 inch wand with out glide to the carpet between 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on the angle of the wand on the stroke.
100 feet of vacuum hose to 1.5 inch wand with glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke.
100 feet of vacuum hose 2 inch wand with out glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke
100 feet of vacuum hose 2 inch wand with out glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke.
I found that using Cobbs relief valve,My free flow and one of greenies kunkles , they all had the same results. I also used a green glide for my testing. I know it was amazing but thats what it was.
I also found it did not matter how it was plumbed ya got the same results.
100 feet of vacuum hose to a 1.5 inch wand with out glide to the carpet between 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on the angle of the wand on the stroke.
100 feet of vacuum hose to 1.5 inch wand with glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke.
100 feet of vacuum hose 2 inch wand with out glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke
100 feet of vacuum hose 2 inch wand with out glide to the carpet 6 to 8 hg at the carpet depending on angle of wand on the stroke.
I found that using Cobbs relief valve,My free flow and one of greenies kunkles , they all had the same results. I also used a green glide for my testing. I know it was amazing but thats what it was.
I also found it did not matter how it was plumbed ya got the same results.
Why bother with 3 inch plumbing or 2 inch for that matter? Why would a Kunkle or Bayco Add additional load to the engine if it weren't forcing the blower to pull more air through a restrictive hose instead of sucking it in easily right there at the relief? I'm sure you can get the lift to rise to a certain point but where's the cfm?
