360i gets a face lift.

[Mikey P]

raised the swoops 5/16ths..



Hope it cures the streaking issues.

 

[Art Kelley]

Is there going to be a recall or are we on our own? I like the increased air flow that the four heads give over the 3 heads that you had mentioned in an earlier post. That in itself is worth the upgrade as I have not experienced the streaking problem that Jim Martin talks about even on thick pile carpets and even at 16" of vac lift from my WM.

 

[Jim Martin]

something to think about......

the hardest thing on a motor is.....start up...if you look at the ratings on them..you will see 2 different types of amps on the tags..start amps and run amps...start amps is where the amps will peak when you turn it on because of torque ...run amps is maximum amperage it is allowed to hold before you start having problems...

On the outside of the RX motor are start capacitor..this little device is put on a motor to help the amps on the start up and to help the motor take the load when it is turned on...once it is turned on then it is no longer in play..the motor has to be the right size and have the proper RPM's to handle what it is turning...Hydro-master did good on this design....1750 RPM's

Same type of design on the 700...but the motor does not need the start capacitor...it has the torque that is needed to get the head moving and hold the running amp speed with no problems...like the RX the motor the 700 does not heat up and it does not bog down....both motors on the RX and the 700 are pretty much the same..one design needs the extra boost to start up and one does not..that is the only difference.....one is no better then the other...both are good strong motors and will out last the machines...the only thing that will kill them is the wrong type of cord..and that stays true to any type of electrical machine that runs off a cord....use the wrong cord and the motor will strain to get the right amount of electricity that it requires to run....the running amps go up...the cord and the motor gets hot and you start burning things up....

the 360i... has a servo motor..(or variable speed)..these things are really cool little motors...but they have a down fall..they are not really made to take torque....they are designed to start something out slow.....bring it up to speed and then slowly back it down...in time it will chew the brushes and damage the internal parts because of the pressure that is put on it...they work great for things that are designed to "free spin" and rely on a variable speed motor to bring it up to power...and control what it is running...on the 360i the more you use it the hotter it gets..on thicker pile carpets is where it gets the hottest...the lower you put the speed it the more strain it will have trying to keep the head turning....so it will not have a long life like the others.....it can not handle this type of application...at 250 RPM's.......how much more torque do you think the added pressure of a 4th vacuum slot will add to this motor....

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I would think the 4th head in this configuration would actually reduce the net drag.

 

[Jim Martin]

ease up on the vacuum...maybe...but not the torque it is going to take to get it spinning...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Have many motors failed on the 360i?

 

[Jim Martin]

3 that I have heard of...and
a few are over heating and cutting in and out....
and a few have had some brush problems.......

 

[Mike Draper]

I personaly don't think the streaking problem is a jet thing, I think it has to do with the concentrated weight in the bac of the machine when swinging to the left. The extra weight on the back teeth clean extra aggresive with the weight imbalance and can't be duplicated when cleaning to the right side because the weight is now centered evenly across the head. I've had streaking on thin cut pile and frieze as well.

 

[Charlie Lyman]

Do you think that glides would be better than raising the vac slots? Maybe that would be helpful in reducing the drag?

 

[Larry Cobb]

the hardest thing on a motor is.....start up...if you look at the ratings on them..you will see 2 different types of amps on the tags..start amps and run amps...start amps is where the amps will peak when you turn it on because of torque ...run amps is maximum amperage it is allowed to hold before you start having problems...

the 360i... has a servo motor..(or variable speed)..these things are really cool little motors...but they have a down fall..they are not really made to take torque....they are designed to start something out slow.....bring it up to speed and then slowly back it down...in time it will chew the brushes and damage the internal parts because of the pressure that is put on it...they work great for things that are designed to "free spin" and rely on a variable speed motor to bring it up to power...and control what it is running...on the 360i the more you use it the hotter it gets..on thicker pile carpets is where it gets the hottest...the lower you put the speed it the more strain it will have trying to keep the head turning....so it will not have a long life like the others.....it can not handle this type of application...at 250 RPM's.......how much more torque do you think the added pressure of a 4th vacuum slot will add to this motor....

Jim;

We have serviced several of the 360i machines.

The motor is NOT the limiting factor for starting torque.

The speed control for the DC motor is controlling the maximum torque.

A simple adjustment allows for more torque when required.

We adjusted this on a couple of 360i machines,

for the brush head which requires more staring torque.

Larry

 

[hogjowl]

Art loves his 360i. I think this streaking thing is a BB conspiracy to make him look stoopit.

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":3cdyfju5]the hardest thing on a motor is.....start up...if you look at the ratings on them..you will see 2 different types of amps on the tags..start amps and run amps...start amps is where the amps will peak when you turn it on because of torque ...run amps is maximum amperage it is allowed to hold before you start having problems...

the 360i... has a servo motor..(or variable speed)..these things are really cool little motors...but they have a down fall..they are not really made to take torque....they are designed to start something out slow.....bring it up to speed and then slowly back it down...in time it will chew the brushes and damage the internal parts because of the pressure that is put on it...they work great for things that are designed to "free spin" and rely on a variable speed motor to bring it up to power...and control what it is running...on the 360i the more you use it the hotter it gets..on thicker pile carpets is where it gets the hottest...the lower you put the speed it the more strain it will have trying to keep the head turning....so it will not have a long life like the others.....it can not handle this type of application...at 250 RPM's.......how much more torque do you think the added pressure of a 4th vacuum slot will add to this motor....

Jim;

We have serviced several of the 360i machines.

The motor is NOT the limiting factor for starting torque.

The speed control for the DC motor is controlling the maximum torque.

A simple adjustment allows for more torque when required.

We adjusted this on a couple of 360i machines,

for the brush head which requires more staring torque.

Larry[/quote:3cdyfju5]


what adjustments are you making.....there is not much to play with and torque is torque

have you amped it out...

 

[Bob Foster]

Must get close or over FLA on start up. Do they pop 15a circuits? Hard start circuitry is adjustable?

 

[Jim Martin]

Must get close or over FLA on start up. Do they pop 15a circuits? Hard start circuitry is adjustable?

I haven't yet..but it over amps on start up..and it bogs down and the run amps are high....that is why it runs so hot...
that little motor does not have a long life....

 

[Bob Foster]

Real hard on little motors. FLA every time it starts will make life short. How heavy a cord does it come with?

 

[Jim Martin]

Real hard on little motors. FLA every time it starts will make life short. How heavy a cord does it come with?

looks like a 14/3.....but the thing is about 50 foot long....I went and bought a heavy duty 25 foot 14/3 for mine...the one that came with it is not a real good one...and it did not take time for it to start to twist inside...

14/3 is ok at 50 foot.....but you are only going to max out 15 amps out of it before it starts getting to hot..get a 25 and you can reduce it down and not have to fight the rats nest when it starts to twist inside....

 

[Larry Cobb]

what adjustments are you making.....there is not much to play with and torque is torque

have you amped it out...

The adjustments are on the speed control board in the handle.

It made a huge difference in the motor starting torque developed.

Larry

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":28n1zozg]
what adjustments are you making.....there is not much to play with and torque is torque

have you amped it out...

The adjustments are on the speed control board in the handle.

It made a huge difference in the motor starting torque developed.

Larry[/quote:28n1zozg]

Larry..I am avid RX user..I am use to running these things wide open at high rpm's ...about a week after I got the 360i I by-passed the speed dial....it was totally use less to me...I would bump it and it was always moving on me..

you are not going to get that motor more wide open then that and it still over amps...and lowering the thing is worse on start up...the dial only steps up the power to the motor...I do not understand how it can be adjusted to help with the torque on the start up or the power of the motor...

learn me how this works.......

 

[Bob Foster]

 

[Bob Foster]

I wonder if changing out the brushes would help?