38 HP Kohler / 56 BLOWER
- Thread starter Johnnyone
- Start date
T
The Magician
Guest
If I was going to run a 56 blower I would get the reliable and proven 49 or horsepower engine. Not some new experimental 38 low hp. eng.
Larry Cobb
Member
The 38HP Kohler is a 1 Liter engine that has been run in the commercial lawn maintenance field.
It has plenty of torque to max out the #56 blower.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
It has plenty of torque to max out the #56 blower.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
Larry,
My question on the torque of a 56 was not in any way directed at you or the 38 hp Kohler.
I hope you did not take it as such.
But now that we are on the subject, and I ask this respectfully, how can you say "it has plenty" if you don't know how much torque the 56 requires or produces (how ever you look at it)? Just curious.
Respectfully,
My question on the torque of a 56 was not in any way directed at you or the 38 hp Kohler.
I hope you did not take it as such.
But now that we are on the subject, and I ask this respectfully, how can you say "it has plenty" if you don't know how much torque the 56 requires or produces (how ever you look at it)? Just curious.
Respectfully,
T
The Magician
Guest
Larry,
We are all aware of the difference between carpet cleaning machines and lawn mowers. How many of these machines do you have in the field cleaning? What is the torque of the 38 hp. eng. Are you famiiliar with any of the 4 cy. motors .
We are all aware of the difference between carpet cleaning machines and lawn mowers. How many of these machines do you have in the field cleaning? What is the torque of the 38 hp. eng. Are you famiiliar with any of the 4 cy. motors .
G
Guest
Guest
Personally , I have run run the lawn mower machine engines for a long time. I have also built and sold over 400 machines. I also have used liquid cooled 3cly and 4cly engines. MY personal take is , I prefer the aircooled engine. With proper maintenance these engines under very heavy operating conditions will last a very long time.. I got over 8,000 hours on my last kholer 20hp 45 blower engine. The machine went into service
in 1997 and was retired in 2006 October. The engine is still being used on a miller welding unit. The air cooled do cost less to replace than a water cooled and for simplicity I Feel they are better.
in 1997 and was retired in 2006 October. The engine is still being used on a miller welding unit. The air cooled do cost less to replace than a water cooled and for simplicity I Feel they are better.
G
Guest
Guest
I have seen a few of them, I have also seen 4 cyl fords and nissans have to be replaced at 2000 hrs .
carpet cleaner
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
- Messages
- 39
the bottom line is, it's a Kohler engine
that says enough
all the major truck mount builders including Larry Cobb use Kohler
they are proven and that's the bottom line
that says enough
all the major truck mount builders including Larry Cobb use Kohler
they are proven and that's the bottom line
T
The Magician
Guest
I have owned many TMs since 77. 2 cyl, 3cyl, 4 cyl and PTO. not knocking the 2 cyl Kohler either. I still own one and a big motor TM too. Just don't believe using anything under 49 horse w/ a 56 blower is a good investment. Remember Larry was a Honda builder before hes started using Kohler.
All the major TM manufactuerers are using the 49 + hp with the 56 blowers.
All the major TM manufactuerers are using the 49 + hp with the 56 blowers.
carpet cleaner
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
- Messages
- 39
The Magician
you're right, and Larry Cobb also researches and stands behind everything he builds
you're right, and Larry Cobb also researches and stands behind everything he builds
G
Guest
Guest
Jimmy , I see your point but you have to understand the ,major mfg need to make a lot of profit. By doing this they are able to gain about a 8 to 12 thousand dollar profit per machine. There just is not much profit in it for the big mfg for the smaller machines because of companies like cobb ,myself ,tcs ,accelerated,chemtex,namco.wang and about 30 other companies. As things progress and i am moving towards that direction also you will see lower prices from little guys. When that happens the big guys will put something else on to make more money, I do not blame them for that it is evolution of business. However dollar for dollar a guy buying a 40 to 75 thousand dollar set up has a big disadvantage to a guy who gets a complete set up for 8 to 16 thousand dollars. Just makes good sense to me.
What is the torque of a 38 HP kohler? I don't know but it seems like it has plenty of HP to run a 56 Blower. The manufacture may have the ansewer but I don't thing they like to go there. They will give HP rates, RPM.
With that big of a motor you will have lots of heat for the heat exchanger also.
I like having a water cooled engine also, kinda like haveing a motor cycle engine for a carpet machine, seems like a step up from a lawn mower engine.
With that big of a motor you will have lots of heat for the heat exchanger also.
I like having a water cooled engine also, kinda like haveing a motor cycle engine for a carpet machine, seems like a step up from a lawn mower engine.
T
The Magician
Guest
Nick thanks for the heads up. We need the smaller manufacturers to help out the industry. Keep up the good work.
Carpet Cleaner, I have met Larry Cobb several times. He is very good for our industry. Are you running one of his machines?
Carpet Cleaner, I have met Larry Cobb several times. He is very good for our industry. Are you running one of his machines?
carpet cleaner
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
- Messages
- 39
The Magician
i am not running one of Larry's machines
i am not running one of Larry's machines
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that you estimate the power requirements for a gas engine to run the components (pump and blower) which I believe is twice that of an electric motor. Set your engine RPM at peak HP and your vacuum relief for peak torque. The main factor being that under load, you never drop below max torque, and that setting provides acceptable cfm and lift as well as adequate pump rpm for flow and pressure.
Larry Cobb
Member
Engine displacement is a good indicator of torque output.
The new Kohler V-twin is a 1 Liter engine with a broad torque band. This makes it well-suited for driving the #56 blower.
It also has an extended service interval (150 hrs.) for today's busy professionals.
The digital advance ignition coils are also isolated from engine heat for better duability.
We offer both air-cooled and water-cooled engines.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
The new Kohler V-twin is a 1 Liter engine with a broad torque band. This makes it well-suited for driving the #56 blower.
It also has an extended service interval (150 hrs.) for today's busy professionals.
The digital advance ignition coils are also isolated from engine heat for better duability.
We offer both air-cooled and water-cooled engines.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
Hold the presses.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when utter BS is posted, it has to be challenged.
"Jimmy , I see your point but you have to understand the ,major mfg need to make a lot of profit. By doing this they are able to gain about a 8 to 12 thousand dollar profit per machine."
I can absolutley assure you, NOBODY is making $8-12K on a Machine.
If you just take an average machine for example: A Power Clean Freedom 45, it has a 25hp water cooled motor and a roots 45 blower.
I can call up John at Superior Cleaning Solutions tomorrow and buy that machine for $12K and change.
Where is $8K in the deal for John?
Where is $8K in the deal for Power Clean?
Dollar for dollar invested, there isn't any more money on a larger machine.
I just wanted to clear the air, it's a bit funky in here.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when utter BS is posted, it has to be challenged.
"Jimmy , I see your point but you have to understand the ,major mfg need to make a lot of profit. By doing this they are able to gain about a 8 to 12 thousand dollar profit per machine."
I can absolutley assure you, NOBODY is making $8-12K on a Machine.
If you just take an average machine for example: A Power Clean Freedom 45, it has a 25hp water cooled motor and a roots 45 blower.
I can call up John at Superior Cleaning Solutions tomorrow and buy that machine for $12K and change.
Where is $8K in the deal for John?
Where is $8K in the deal for Power Clean?
Dollar for dollar invested, there isn't any more money on a larger machine.
I just wanted to clear the air, it's a bit funky in here.
G
Guest
Guest
If you read my post greenie you would see that I impied it was on the bigger machines . I will lay this out for you. on the smaller units there is not as much profit.
here goes pay attention now.
powerclean victory 47 wholesale is around 10,000.00 retail 12,500.00 is a 20 percent mark up.
powercleans cost to build aprox 5000.00 with accessory.power clean profits 5000.00 dealer porfits 2500.00 7500.00 missed it by 500.00
apex by prochem cost of kubota engine 4,000.00 blower T408 cost 1600.00 water pump cost 300.00 misc costruction cost 3000.00=8900.00cost to dist 16560.00 price for retail 20,700.00
Mark up 7660.00 to dist mark up to end user 4140.00
and you can bet these companies are getter prices on engines and blower and water pumps.
here goes pay attention now.
powerclean victory 47 wholesale is around 10,000.00 retail 12,500.00 is a 20 percent mark up.
powercleans cost to build aprox 5000.00 with accessory.power clean profits 5000.00 dealer porfits 2500.00 7500.00 missed it by 500.00
apex by prochem cost of kubota engine 4,000.00 blower T408 cost 1600.00 water pump cost 300.00 misc costruction cost 3000.00=8900.00cost to dist 16560.00 price for retail 20,700.00
Mark up 7660.00 to dist mark up to end user 4140.00
and you can bet these companies are getter prices on engines and blower and water pumps.
G
Guest
Guest
Gee greenie there you go again not knowing what you are talking about. Just like 2.5 inch vacuum hose costing 1.95 a foot and some one selling it for 2.69 a foot the end user is beeing screwed agaijn.
T
The Magician
Guest
Engine displacement is a good indicator of torque ouput . Ok The brand new Kohler has no record in the field working with a 56 or with any other manufacturer. Drinking too much tea with a Kohler salesman?
The Magician
Now you see it..............where is it.
The Magician
Now you see it..............where is it.
Larry Cobb
Member
The #56 or 5MP blower requires ~22 HP for full output.
The 38 HP Kohler will have more than enough power to spin the blower up to maximum RPM.
We have a couple of customers who are running #56 blowers @ 2400 RPM with the 31 HP water-cooled Kohler engine.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
The 38 HP Kohler will have more than enough power to spin the blower up to maximum RPM.
We have a couple of customers who are running #56 blowers @ 2400 RPM with the 31 HP water-cooled Kohler engine.
Larry Cobb
Mikey Board Supporting Member
T
The Magician
Guest
Larry. we remember your post on the 31 hp motor not having enough HP. How many years or should I say hrs. on those machines. Any belt or valve train problems yet? I wish you well.
The Magician,
Now you seei t...........But where?
The Magician,
Now you seei t...........But where?
Larry Cobb
Member
Magician;
The oldest 31 HP with a #56 has been in the field about 18 months.
No service other than oil & filter changes has been needed.
Larry Cobb
The oldest 31 HP with a #56 has been in the field about 18 months.
No service other than oil & filter changes has been needed.
Larry Cobb
Lora Olson
Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2007
- Messages
- 432
freeflow said:
ok how in the world is the end user being screwed? What something cost me and what I sell it for is in direct relationship with how much it cost me to purchase, stock, distributor and record all of the latter. Then we have to start adding in the over head. I can tell you it cost us nearly 30K a month to stay in business. That's not sales that's COST! So to accomplish that our minimum is 110K a month in gross sales. And let me tell you my salary is half of what I was making as a commissioned sales person. So lets use your end user getting screwed scenario. Lets say I sell that 2.5" hose for only 2.10 instead of 2.69. Explain to me why I would even want to bother when it would COST me money to sell it for that. there is NO direct correlation with purchase price and sales price. For a true cost you need to add about 10-15% of what a distributor pays for something to even begin to get close to what it really cost's us and even then you'd be wrong..
Oh and this is John Olson Posting from my Wife's user name as I didn't realize she was logged in when I opened the board
G
Guest
Guest
Nick, are you saying Greenie should sell 2.5 inch hose at his cost? If you want him to do that I'd sure expect that you do that on your machines, right?
And please show me where if I spend $16k I'll get the same bang for my buck as if I spend $75k. You show me that and I'll have a check ready tomorrow. For $75k I can have a brand new Aerotech or probably any top of the line slide in model in a fully outfitted box truck. Can I get that for $16k? If so I and most every other cleaner is missing out!
I'm really not trying to argue, but you have to compare apples to apples and not over simplify or over exagerate what really is going on.
And please show me where if I spend $16k I'll get the same bang for my buck as if I spend $75k. You show me that and I'll have a check ready tomorrow. For $75k I can have a brand new Aerotech or probably any top of the line slide in model in a fully outfitted box truck. Can I get that for $16k? If so I and most every other cleaner is missing out!
I'm really not trying to argue, but you have to compare apples to apples and not over simplify or over exagerate what really is going on.
G
Guest
Guest
that is not what I am saying at all. 1.96 is a 30 percent markup from our cost. This is the what is nice about free market . You guys can purchase from anyone you want. Greenie should be allowed to make as much as he wants. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with anyone making money. that is our perogative.
