3M Scotchgard and the cleaning industry

[Mikey P]

I had great discussion with some reps and managers at Surfaces last week.

They are seriously interested in moving more product to us carpet cleaners.

I told them very honestly that if they want to do that than they need to reformulate so that us cleaners can put down enough product so that it works AND DOES NOT OVER WET the carpet.
The current recommended dilution rates make it so no cleaner in his right mind will ever apply enough so that the home owner sees a benefit. At one gallon for every 200 feet with an 04 tip the carpet would take days to dry. Repeats must be almost non existent.
Now factor in the masses that leave carpet full of detergents, so not only wont the product attach but the homeowner will assume that the stiff or sticky fibers are the results of the Scotchgard.


They were very receptive to the idea of reformulating so one gallon covers 800 to 1000 feet, as well as adding instructions to the label on how to properly prepare the fibers so that the product can really work (acid rinse)

I'm hoping that they find this thread and will comment.





Jon Don can thank me later.

 

[Jimmy L]

Tell them to make it a much cheaper price too. All these protectors are too expensive.

 

[Art Kelley]

And I want a pony.

 

[Zee]

I see the problem with both sides...

If "joe shmoe" carpet guy doesn't apply enough to properly cover the yarns ENTIRELY, then it won't work as it's promised to.
And of course the other side is where enough product is applied but it's very wet.


I'm afraid that if they reformulated the product, "joe shmoe" will use even less product and further devalue the very thing, that should be one of his best "add on" to his invoice.

 

[hogjowl]

Shut up, Zee.

 

[Zee]

Ok Marty.... May I ask your HOGness why you'd prefer me exercising silence?

 

[Spurlington]

I used to think using less water to mix the mix would leave carpet dryer - just spray lightly. But it would be hard to determine if theres enough moisture on the carpet to evenly mix with the product when applied.

I bet a few people arent selling it cause they dont believe in it. It will work if protector is mixed and applied correctly to a correctly prepared carpet.

 

[hogjowl]

Ok Marty.... May I ask your HOGness why you'd prefer me exercising silence?

Because you're sounding like a paternalistic democrat.

 

[roro]

The 3M chemist explained it to me a little bit tongue in cheek as "If you can run fast enough you don't need to dilute it at all."
At that time we were predominantly applying to wool carpet and had two formulations one for dry carpet and one for wet (as in just cleaned) which was half the dry rate.
The main problem that we had was that it was designed primarily be anti-soiling rather than anti-staining, and didn't cope well with liquids dropping from a height. In our experience Mrs Piffleton wasn't worried about the dry soiling aspect and so we ended up using it in effect as a reverse sale aid to encourage customers to schedule cleaning more frequently.

roro

 

[Zee]

Because you're sounding like a paternalistic democrat.

You could not have arrived to a more different conclusion about me.

Bad day, my brother?

 

[GeneMiller]

They need to add something that makes it evaporate quickly. I use it mixed at twice strength and apply it. Seems to work just fine. Capillary action should spread it out. Seems like years ago I used one that had alcohol in it. I remember the house always had that rubbing alcohol smell after spraying.

 

[hogjowl]

It's raining and my hemorrhoids are acting up.

YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT!?

 

[Zee]

It's raining and my hemorrhoids are acting up.

YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT!?

Whooooossaaaaahhhhh.....

 

[steve_64]

So why does using an acid rinse help? Dont acid rinses leave product in the carpet also? Or is it more of a chemical reaction type thing.

 

[Scott S.]

So why does using an acid rinse help? Dont acid rinses leave product in the carpet also? Or is it more of a chemical reaction type thing.

acids help to rinse out alkaline residues from our prespray, and home spotters the customer may have tried.
you need to watch more for surfactants, you can have an acid rinse that has a surfactant, but make sure your using it to the proper dilution , and not over using it.

 

[Cleanworks]

I haven't used scotchgard for years. Never liked the smell. I switched to dupont teflon. It's applied the same way, same dilution (4-1) apply the same amount,etc. I have nevered applied as much per square foot as they say on the label. I generally spray 2 light coats and groom it in. It does work. Vary the amount according to the type of carpet. Heavy carpet apply more, lightweight carpet apply less. I can't see myself going bacl to 3m unless they change the paint thinner odor. Maybe they have since I used it last.

 

[Loren Egland]

I had great discussion with some reps and managers at Surfaces last week


They were very receptive to the idea of reformulating so one gallon covers 800 to 1000 feet, as well as adding instructions to the label on how to properly prepare the fibers so that the product can really work (acid rinse)


Jon Don can thank me later.

This must be something new, because some years ago there was no need to use an acid rinse for Scotchgard to be effective.

 

[The Great Oz]

I'm not sure an acid rinse actually acts as a primer for improved fluorochemical application. If you need to knock down your nuclear oxidizer residues, sure, but if you don't use that stuff...

 

[KevinL]

It sounds like more testing should be done or they should share their findings if they've already done the testing to see what products actually do leave the carpet ready to accept Scotchgard.

 

[Doug Cox]

I've always thought that the dilution would leave the carpet too wet and try my best to give the carpet a good misting. Nick Paolella told me years ago you need to charge at least .13 psf to make money with Scotchgard. I personally tell people I would rather have them invest in more regular cleaning than to rely on Scotchgard to keep their carpets clean. Most carpets I clean IMO are not candidates for Scotchgard due to the cost.

 

[rwcarpet]

Although he doesn't advertise here, I think you should revisit Hard Ball Chemicals Soil Blocker Protector. Water based, 12-1500 sf per gallon, scented if you want, and priced right. They also have a solvent based protector. I believe a few cleaners here were used in HBCC advertisements. I won't spend money on a product just because it has a well known name. And the application rate is atrocious. IMHO.

 

[Mikey P]

I've begged Hardball for years to come here.

Great guy and some great products

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

I purchased some Hardball 20 yrs back. I;m still on the postcard mailing list. jz.

 

[amygeorge]

Guys, please be honest! What percentage of jobs to you sell protector for wall to wall? Seems like many don’t sell it at all and others say they make a killing selling it. We’re under 15% of jobs - put that is our fault because we don’t really push it.

 

[hogjowl]

We've already discussed this. I'm one of those who doesn't push it. I don't like working to remove moisture only to turn around and flood the carpet again. I also don't believe the benefits make it worthwhile. I'm a fair priced cleaner, so I don't HAVE to upsale to make money.

 

[steve_64]

Most of my customers wont benefit from protector. Some want it for peace of mind.

I dont push it neither but ask where I feel its a benefit..

 

[Spurlington]

Never PUSH IT ..

As Im preparing the actual cost of cleaning before the cleaning, I ask," Are you aware of the benefits of having a protective coating applied to a freshly cleaned carpet?" If they say yes, then I ask," Would you like for me to add the coating to your cleaning order?" (I say it this way hoping they dont assume its free until I give them a price). If they say no they are not aware, then I describe the benefits and so on. The minute I feel resistance or if they plain out say no - I quickly move on. There will be times where it would be perfect timing to revisit the benefits while youre cleaning without sounding like youre pushing for a sale. I have sold protector midway to sometimes at the end of the job.

Im sure the feeling of being rejected or having to convince a customer is a feeling we like to do without - which makes it easier to forget about mentioning the protector all together. But if you go about it in a different way, you will be surprised who buys it more than who wont. Its our job to help the customer ... not make the decision for them by not offering the coating.

Years ago I had a customer upset because she wasnt aware of the benefits and I didnt do my job to educate her and offer it leaving the decision up to her to make in whether she bought it or not. Does not matter whether we think the carpet is worth it or not. Customer may put a higher value on their own carpet.

Am I batting a hundred with my protecter sales? NO !!

Ive had people who were selling, who rent and who have had carpet in rough shape want the coating (for one reason or another). They were usually the ones I used to get straight to the cleaning thinking Id be wasting my time even mentioning the coating.

Back when I was 16 I had a rusty car that I used to hand wax cause I thought it was the shit. I was proud of my 77 Nova (with Cragars).

 

[Cleanworks]

for everyone who doesn't know if it works or not, go and get some carpet samples (ones that don't have any factory stain resist treatments already) treat one with a fair treatment of sg or tef and leave the other untreated. spill some colored liquid on them and see which one cleans the best. When I say a fair amount of protector, I mean similar to what you would use in a real world situation. Often, commercial carpets don't have any stain protection on them, maybe start there. I sell more DuPont Teflon to my commercial customers than I do to my residential customers. Most newer residential carpets already have a good factory applied protector and if under 5 years old probably don't need any more. You never want to (push) anything on your customers but you don't want to deprive them of a beneficial product either. Use your good judgment

 

[Nate The Great]

It's not pushing, it's offering.... Depends on how you present it....

 

[Chris A]

I just ask "Y'unt Scotchgard?" That alone works about 30% of the time