Advice....HWE+encap

[1st choice restoration]

I have a commercial job that has been encapped for the last 5 years without any kind of extraction by another company. That company has closed and we'll be taking over the cleaning. It's probably time for a HWE extraction correct?? The we will follow up with the encap every quarter and HWE once a year. This first time we're gonna extract and then immediately follow with encap to prevent any wicking from any buildup???
Thanks

 

[Mikey P]

Let it dry before you encap/ buff it out

Otherwise the chance of over wetting is too likely

Use a lot of fans, or better yet come back the following day


Fully explain the whole process and you'll be the hero



What VLM machine will you use?

 

[Zee]

Lots of defoamer... And slower than normal extraction with plenty of dry strokes.

Heck, I'd say try prevacuuming with a good beater bar vac to remove a lot of junk that janitorial companies never do...

 

[Shane Deubell]

Definitely a good vacuuming.
If you put some air movers out, you can encap after with bonnets. Keep it light.

If coming back next day is possible, that would be even better.

 

[1st choice restoration]

Gonna use Brush Pro with hydrox releasit after HWE

 

[encapman]

Explain to the customer that you'd like to address the carpet with 2 cleanings. Let them know that the carpet may wick following the initial cleaning, but it will look good after the second cleaning.

1. Pre-vacuum well.
2. Sprinkle Crystal Defoamer onto the carpet like parmesan cheese. Foam-Guard is great for this. It will entirely kill any foam.
3. Hot water extract slowly and thoroughly making multiple passes (especially in the high traffic areas).
4. Put fans on the carpet to speed dry.
5. Plan to return the following day to evaluate possible wicking. If wicking occurred, perform post-bonnet cleaning with Encap-HydrOx. Take your time and go slowly with the bonnet cleaning. Microbeast bonnets will work well for this, along with the Encap-HydrOx.

That should do the trick! Now you are in a position to put it into a routine of regular encap cleaning, interspersed with an occasional HWE cleaning.

 

[1st choice restoration]

I only have one day they are closed. I will have to encap the same day I hwe. I have dri eaze studebaker fans I can use. All I have is brush pro to encap with

 

[Mikey P]

A 175 or OP machine would work a lot better to be honest.


With the BP you may end up over wetting if you need to hide any bad wicking.

 

[Pat Muller]

I think I would use a great anti wicking rinse like Chemspec Optimal rinse in my unit.
This product was designed for these type of cleaning
Acid rinse with great anti wicking agents

 

[1st choice restoration]

Be a whole easier just to encap it again!! But I know it needs to flushed out

 

[Mikey P]

I think I would use a great anti wicking rinse like Chemspec Optimal rinse in my unit.
This product was designed for these type of cleaning
Acid rinse with great anti wicking agents

good advice, run it strong too..

 

[ruff]

I don't understand the logic. All this extensive flushing to be followed with encap again, re-loading the carpet with same residue you just spent hours flushing out?
Seems like asking the abusive husband to be the guardian of his abused wife.
The fox to protect the hen house.
The weasel .......(never mind)

The carpet already has a huge buildup of encap and soil. Wicking will happen due to not good enough water recovery and both the excessive soil and chemical residue. Some may come from all that being transferred into the bottom of carpet and potentially the glue layer as well.

I'd spend the time on better recovery (more dry strokes, Zipper, fans etc.) to be followed, as necessary, with buffing with a non residual product. Many times buffing alone, while carpet is still somewhat damp will accomplish great results and reduce the chances of wicking to a minimum.

 

[encapman]

No Ofer - if they had been using a GOOD encap detergent there shouldn't normally be much of a problem with encap residue. But in this case, John needs to unload the carpet from a possible build-up of un-vacuumed remains from whatever mystery encap product was used beforehand (possibly a good encap detergent, or possibly not so good).

A good encap product like Releasit has little chance of building up in the carpet. Why's that? Because the polymer dissolves when it gets wet. And then when it re-dries it crystallizes all over again. It's not like adding coats of paint. Instead, whatever prior residue that may have been missed when the carpet was vacuumed, reverts to a liquid each time the carpet gets wet again. Hence there's no way for a "build-up" to develop.

But we can assume that the previous detergent may have been a lesser encap product that doesn't have a good polymeric component. In that case it's a good idea to flush the carpet because the carpet will likely wick following cleaning (wicking is very common with CGD carpet). And if that occurs a good post-encap cleaning using an encap detergent that crystallizes will go a long way toward correcting the wicking.

 

[ruff]

Rick, if the polymer dissolves and re-dries, wouldn't there be enough to re-crystallize and no need for re-application?

 

[The Great Oz]

I don't understand the logic. All this extensive flushing to be followed with encap again, re-loading the carpet with same residue you just spent hours flushing out?

Because hiding wicking (residual soil) is easier than getting it out.

John, the suggestions made above are all valid, depending on the size of the job you typically do versus the amount of money you want to spend on more stuff. The equipment you have will do just fine, the only suggestion I have is to set up to return the following week to do the encap, if one day per week is all they have, since encap might not be needed.

 

[Zee]

Gotta love the "controversy" when Rick himself inadvertently admits that the pixie dust doesn't all get vacuumed out "at next regular vacuuming..... "

Those of us running Cimexes for over 10 years and have encapped literally millions of sqft of carpet can say it certainly: encap works...in a way....

But it sure as hell doesn't work like it's being sold. 99.7% of the time the "next regular vacuuming... " doesn't happen. Or if it happens it gets done with a lame backpack vacuum with no beater brush and only gets vacuumed where the janitor actually sees something on top of the carpet.

So yes there will be a ton of build up residue that will be needing a lot of defoamer and very thorough rinsing. And even then it could very well wick up.

I would not encap it right away but after its a 100% dry.

 

[tubad sosad]

john in oklahoma, do you have a 175? bonnets? what wand are you using for hwe?

start at the start, do a demo for yourself at the entry way that is most dirty. use brush pro first to agitate dirt and encap residue and then slowly vacuum that area. make sure vac is in good shape as you want to pick up everything you can before you hwe.

next clean the area with your tm and flush rinse it really good. stop and go out and check what is in the waste tank. is it really dirty or really soapy with foam? this will tell you if you need a defoamer, also if it really dirty water then that tells you that you are getting it clean and less likely the carpet having wicking ups.

if you have a 175 then bonnet the area and see if any dirt is transferred onto the bonnet. if so then you are picking up the dirt that could have wicked up.

put down air-path and dry the demo area really good. see results. the air path will prevent wick backs. make the demo area a 10' by 10' so you can see how each step does, it may take a half hour to do but since you have never cleaned it before it will give you lots of good info on what the dirtest part of the carpet needs before you attack the whole thing.

 

[encapman]

Gotta love the "controversy" when Rick himself inadvertently admits that the pixie dust doesn't all get vacuumed out "at next regular vacuuming..... "

Those of us running Cimexes for over 10 years and have encapped literally millions of sqft of carpet can say it certainly: encap works...in a way....

But it sure as hell doesn't work like it's being sold. 99.7% of the time the "next regular vacuuming... " doesn't happen. Or if it happens it gets done with a lame backpack vacuum with no beater brush and only gets vacuumed where the janitor actually sees something on top of the carpet.

So yes there will be a ton of build up residue that will be needing a lot of defoamer and very thorough rinsing. And even then it could very well wick up.

I would not encap it right away but after its a 100% dry.

Zee - I am NOT in the camp of those saying that everything gets vacuumed up with the "next regular vacuuming". I've ALWAYS tried to lay it out as honestly as I can. Look over my everything I've ever stated on this topic... For example; here's how it's worded on the Releasit.com website: "The crystalized residue can then be vacuumed during the normal routine of post-vacuuming. "

I've never indicated that it all gets vacuumed up with a single vacuuming. That would be a ridiculous statement to make. Rather, the encapsulated soil continues to be recovered through routine vacuuming. Over the course of the next several vacuumings the encapsulated soil particles continue to sheer away from the fiber and can be recovered through post-vacuuming.

Here's why that's NOT a problem. The crystallized residue is not sticky (unlike most traditional cleaning agents). The polymeric property of Releasit is soil-retardant. There's no soil-attracting residue, in fact it will actually repel soil. And any residue that may not get recovered will actually resolublize when it gets wet again. So there's no danger of attracting soil or causing a build-up in the carpet.

This underscores the reason for choosing an encap product that contains a quality encap polymer package! So called "film former" detergents can't make the soil magically jump from the fiber. Similarly, encap products that don't have a good crystallizing component can't make the soil mysteriously vanish. With a well balanced crystallizing polymer, there's a vehicle for capturing and holding soil; and there's a vehicle for soil recovery. Our insistence on formulating with quality encap polymers is one of the reasons why Releasit is as successful as it is. It's a key reason why our products work as well as they do.

 

[Zee]

I understand Rick. My point was, that the required "routine vacuuming" will not get done PROPERLY 99% of the times. Therefore we have large amounts of residues to deal with.

When we are the ones maintaining a place and we know that after 3 encapping we always rinse the carpet, then it works better...but the needed "routine vacuuming" still doesn't get done.

 

[encapman]

I understand. Some places have lousy vacuuming.
That's another good reason for having a good encap polymer.
The odds of their carpet holding up (with marginal vacuuming) will at least improve.

An interim of occasional HWE helps too. Sounds like you're on it.

 

[Zee]

I'm on it Rick... Literally.. The amount of tea tree extract I came in contact with starting with the original releasit..... Man, some of my dna is altered- I'm sure.

 

[Royal Man]

I would use a 175 and pad encap it. The brush pro (with heavy brushes) is better suited to loosen and suspend soils to improved removal with HWE or pad cap.

 

[encapman]

Hahaha! Maybe mine's been altered too.

 

[GeneMiller]

If it was my job I wouldn't worry about wicking. Id spend my time flushing throughly and then dry stroking. Against conventional wisdom I crank up the pressure to 700-800. I ran snails back when I used a wand which I set on high as soon as I started. It takes more dry strokes with a wand than the zipper but you can get it done.
I don't see the need for the brush pro after. Run a rinse that will help remove soil. I haven't seen a need for an acid rinse since jute all but disappeared from synthetic carpets. You can run an encap as a rinse if you want. This advice assumes you have a good wand stroke or you'll end up with rail road tracks.

Gene

 

[Dolly Llama]

Short of a 50 pound Certified Pile brush , there's not a vac on the planet that removes anything but what's on the very top of a CGD

anyone that thinks otherwise is clueless

encRap is good for hacks that don't know how to clean and/or making low profit jobs more profitable
other than that, it's a shitty way to clean carpets ..period

..L.T.A.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Sodium laurel sulphate is the problem.

 

[Mikey P]

anyone that thinks otherwise is clueless

No rotary extractor, No Zipper...


Who is clueless?

 

[steve_64]

Whether I encap or flush a large commercial job I go back a few days later with a bottle of releasit or whatever I think I need and touch up any spots I see. I do this during business hours for exposure and good customer service.

 

[1st choice restoration]

This job really has no spots at all...no stains...should I Still be concerned about wicking??? Like older spots that have been encapped??

 

[Dolly Llama]

No rotary extractor, No Zipper...


Who is clueless?

Talking about vaccing CGD you knucklehead

and someone that's considering a part time porty in a Pinto, I see in the future rationalizing that encRap a more and more viable option.
just another step closer to Dante's Inferno


..L.T.A.