Air Cooled Engine-Kohler

Farenheit251

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Mine bent a rod at just under 3 years and 1800 hours. It was well maintained. Kohler rep said 1380 was average lifespan. Years ago my Prochem cub w/ a 16 hp Briggs had over 4000 when I sold it.
Good thing was John H, had one in stock and on Doo Daddy's machines its only an hour job to be back up and running. I was surprised how much more power and how much smoother the new one ran. Guess you don't notice the loss as it happens gradually.
 

Duane Oxley

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You might want to check for back pressure against the motor. It shouldn't be more than 3 PSI. I know that the exhaust plumbing has been modified some, and if you've overflowed a few times, you could have some blockage.

And, with the recent install, something may need to be corrected...

Not saying for sure. It's just a hunch and I'm bringing up some possibilities.

My Kohler rep, BTW, says 2,500 or more hours are average... All things considered, they should last longer than that, if taken care of well, and I know you do.

So, check the exhaust.

You'll probably need to call me on this one...
 

steve g

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kohlers are supposed to be an upgrade compared to a briggs however I have had more problems with kohlers and had very good luck with briggs motors, the voltage regulator used to go out every couple months on the legends we used to run and one broke a cam at about the 1800 mark. I have a 16hp briggs with well over 3200 on it, the hour meter was broke when I got it, still has good compression, my 18hp has 2k on it, doesn't burn any oil, and the oil is clean and looks great even when its due to be changed, haven't had any problems out of it.
 

Duane Oxley

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16 Vanguards have always been good motors...

If you have a Vanguard that doesn't leak oil, then you have a rarity. When I built systems with them (Which I did from 1996 to 2001), I'd get calls from people with systems only weeks old with oil leaks.

That's just part of owning a Vanguard... They leak oil. And go through starter solenoids like a baby eats candy...
 
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we have one 16hp vangard with almost 6000 hrs on it....all original seals and internals except valve cover gaskets.....doesn't burn a drop of oil. Does go through starter solenoids thought once a year or every other year.
Had another 16 vangard with 3500 hrs on it....it just started leaking oil at that point from the crank shaft seal...we just replaced it and had the other one rebuilt for a spare. Mechanic said that the internals were in awesome shape for amount of hrs on it.

Have a 18hp kohler now and that engine has been replaced 3 times in 5000 hrs. The crank keeps on cracking for some reason. The original motor lasted 3000 hrs and then the crankcase seal started leaking on that too. The Kohlers seem to start hard when hot, wereas the briggs may only start a little hard first thing in the AM.
 

bob vawter

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The most common reason for rotating assembly failure on those small engines would be the direct coupler....if they aren't dED NUTS ON....they will fail sooner rather than later.......

change that statement to....they will fail ALL THE TIME...belts only guys!
 

Joe Couch

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I worked at a small engine repair shop for 5 years and our Kohler Rep told us that 2500-3000 hours is what should be expected with a well maintained engine. You should definitely check the back pressure because something is going on and this may happen again.

I would highly recommend a good synthetic 10w-30 oil because of the extreme temps these run under. I know that it cost alot more but it will pay off in the long run. I would also recommend staying away from after market and car oil filters because they are not designed for small engines. We only used and recommended the Kohler ones.
 

Jim Pemberton

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All of my contacts with Kohler have told me, and my experience in working with their engines for about 25 years would confirm, that 2500-3000 hours is the average expected lifetime.
 

Duane Oxley

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Richard:

On the Halcyon, if I'm not mistaken, the motor is turned sideways on the frame, and the belts (there are 2 of the... right...?) are on pulleys that are about 4" in diameter.

If that's an accurate description of the configuration, then in order to get good belt tension, you have to move either the blower or motor sideways (blower on that one, if I'm correct here) to get enough belt tension.

That machine, in my experience, needs larger pulleys, so that you don't have to have as much tension between the motor and blower to have enough traction in the belt to not have slippage. The more the tension, the more side- load against the bearings you have.

Also, back- pressure, as I mentioned above is crucial. Halcyon ("Hurricane") went out of business, due to problems with their system. Between side- load and excessive back- pressure, a system can "eat" motors...

And I never have liked the sideways- motor configuration. Briggs, Kohler, and any other company rep or repair tech you talk to will tell you. An air- cooled motor should face the outside... not be turned sideways, so that it can pull fresh, cooler air... not recirculate the hotter air generated by the system inside the van.
 

steve g

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Duane Oxley said:
16 Vanguards have always been good motors...

If you have a Vanguard that doesn't leak oil, then you have a rarity. When I built systems with them (Which I did from 1996 to 2001), I'd get calls from people with systems only weeks old with oil leaks.

That's just part of owning a Vanguard... They leak oil. And go through starter solenoids like a baby eats candy...

the only oil leak problem I ever had on mine was the oil pressure sensor that is near the oil filter, this sensor itself developed a leak, prolly from me using a pair of pliers to take it off previously other than that neither of my briggs leak any oil, also i have never replaced a starter solenoid either, however as CCC mentioned I did notice the hard to start when hot problem with the kohlers, plus the tell tale sound that kohler starter makes doesn't sound good.
 
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Had no idea what the lifespan of the small engine might be. Did kinda figure it would be north of 3000 hours though.

Anyone have experience with the 24hp Honda in a Diablo. Speculate how many hours one could get with a well maintained engine. Is Mobil One the way to go?
 
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Brian,

Sorry that you had to get a engine so soon. Call me on Monday and we can go over some issues. Do not run that unit, until you talk with me.
With a few little tricks that needs to be done, your new engine should last at least 4500-6000 hours.

Thanks,
Les
 

Loren Egland

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I only have experience with Kohler engines on the Powermatics, but it's been my experience to expect double the hours of what you say Kohler says you will get.

One reason might be the simple engine oil cooling system, where a hose and copper coil routes the engine oil through the cool fresh water tank. Keeps the engine running cooler than just air cooling and with no extra moving parts or fluids.

Loren
 

Jay D

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Les, please give a couple of these tricks you say will extend the life of a kohler. Inquiring minds want to know. Pleaseeeeeeeeeee........... :roll:
 

bob vawter

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Hey you guys...i bet ya that i can rebuild my 302 ford engine AND put it in my truck cheaper than YOU buying a one of those junk little motors and pay someone to put it in...PLUS use LESS gas /working hour.......
 

Doug Cox

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I do about 1800 hrs. or better a year and I couldn't imagine having to deal with a motor that often.
 
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Jay DeLaughter said:
Les, please give a couple of these tricks you say will extend the life of a kohler. Inquiring minds want to know. Pleaseeeeeeeeeee........... :roll:

To get the most out of your air cooled engine, or any engine as far as that goes.
#1 - Keep the Engine as stock as possible, the way it was shipped from the factory. Especially the exhaust system. Have the exhaust exiting the machine independently.

#2 - Have the Engine running at the correct RPM. The correct RPM is slightly over the peak torque curve. Most twins have a max RPM of 3600, and a max peak torque curve of 2400 - 2800. This lowering of the RPM alone, will extend the life of the Engine at least 1 or maybe 2 years.

#3 - Never change the brand of the oil from the day that the Engine has broke in. Every type of oil runs at a different temperature. Once a Engine has broke into a certain temperature, it will always expand the same each time that it is run. The Engine breaks into this expansion.
If you change brands and the Engine expands more or less, this puts unnecessary stress on the Engine, and the Engine rebreaks into the new expansion of the different temperature. I recommend Castrol straight 30 weight detergent oil.

#4 - Once your Engine is out of warranty, I would switch to a automotive high capacity oil filter, or even add a oil cooler at this time.

#5 - Before starting the Engine every day, check the oil level, add if necessary. Change the oil slightly before factory recommended times.

#6 - Clean or replace the air filter on a regular basis. A dirty filter will cause the Engine to run rich, wasting fuel.

What I am telling you is probably nothing new to most of you guys, but I've seen the results first hand. I know of carpet cleaner's who can't even get a year out of the Engine. They never do any maintenance, and I've seen guy's get over 7000 hours, but they did exactly what I've just described.
I hope this will help you get the most out of your Engine.

Les
 

Duane Oxley

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Good advice, Les.

A couple of things I differ from... sort of a "philosophical thing", that I see as being something to be "designed around", so to speak. Nothing major, though...

This one, though, I do have problems with:

#3 - Never change the brand of the oil from the day that the Engine has broke in. ... I recommend Castrol straight 30 weight detergent oil.

Both Kohler and Briggs specify 10W 30. Using anything else goes contrary to what they say to do in their owner's manual.

I've heard all kinds of things about breaking in a motor, from running with one "load" of 30W ND for the first time, to (for a Kohler...)starting it up and running it at full throttle until it's hot (about 3 minutes), then shutting it down until cool, to get the rings to seat well. (This is recommended by a friend who is a master mechanic for Kohler, Briggs, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda...).

I recommend to my customers that they change to synthetic after 200 hours, which isn't in the manuals either, but Briggs' brand oil is now a synthetic. It's not "required"... yet, but they do say:

"Oil-Synthetic 32 oz. - 100074
32 oz. Recommended for use in all air-cooled small engines.
Synthetic oil offers better wear control of your engine, even under severe operating conditions. Since synthetics have better “inherent strength” they have the hey have the ability to keep functioning at the highest level for the longest possible time."


Kohler says:

"Unlike standard automotive motor oil, KOHLER oil is specially formulated for small engines. Heavy-duty additives offer protection against oxidation, viscosity breakdown and acid contamination from combustion by-products, wear and friction.
Command 10W-30 This multi-viscosity oil pumps easily to provide instant lubrication to overhead valve components during start-up. Providing the full protection of an SAE-30 oil at operating temperatures, KOHLER Command universal oil is extremely resistant to viscosity shearing and stays in grade through its normal service life. "


They recommend 30WT oil for the older, "Magnum" Series motors, though.


When it comes to oil, everybody seems to have a favorite. I use and recommend Valvoline, personally. And I stick to the 10W 30 thing...

Your recommendation on the oil filter change is a good one, BTW. My friend tells me that they're supposed to void a warranty if a motor comes in with an oil- related problem and an after- market filter on it... even though a good after- market filter, in his opinion, and mine and yours, is actually better...

BTW... Although you're right about the idea of running a motor slower to extend it's life, (The piston only goes up and down in the cylinder a certain (limited) number of times, and the faster it does that, the faster it burns out, so to speak...), I don't see the trade- off in vacuum performance as worth it. I don't set systems to run full- out and have come under criticism for it at times. I set mine to run at 3,200 RPM. I know your philosophy is to match the components, in terms of torque, and run the motor at torque max, which is less than RPM max. It's a logical approach. I just prefer to use a little larger motors, so that they don't lose anything by running a bit past that 2800 mark, in terms of noticeable power. In fact, they "hum", as I say, at 3,200...

It's pretty easy to demonstrate if you have 2 systems next to each other with, for instance a #36 blower and an 18 HP motor on one and a 20 on the other. The 20 runs undeniably smoother...
 

steve g

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ditto on the clean air filter, if its dirty the motor will run rich, it will also cause there to be more fuel and soot in the oil =dirty oil,, as well as foul the plugs, that can't be good for engine life
 

Duane Oxley

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My pleasure, Jay. I don't speak for Les, but I know he's here to help as well.

I think what you're seeing is a difference of opinion on some things. Both opinions are "facts" to us, yet both have track records of success, in terms of what's being described.

On some things, I'm sure we'll agree. On others, we'll just have to "agree to disagree".

No one can "disagree" with Judson's track record, though... :lol:
 

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