all this talk about prevacing got me wondering..

[gasaxe]

when cleaning residential or non restaurant commercial carpet if your removing so much of the dry soil and contaminants why do so many of you feel the need to have high flow??
Seems to me if prevac is so efficient at removing soil then you shouldnt need so much water flow to remove the left over "attached" stuff.

 

[hogjowl]

Cover every base, my son.

 

[gasaxe]

Cover every base, my son.

can you explain further?? removing dirt is removing dirt. If your getting it out with the vaccum why the need for so much water and in turn large vaccum system and drying steps.

 

[gasaxe]

You're not only flushing the carpet of its soil, but of the products that you apply as well. Some of them there presprays are just a PITA to remove with little flow.

Its kinda like washing your hair with a piss stream of water only coming out of the shower head. Its not gonna do crap for rinsing your hair(unless you're bald, or from alabama with a hideous comb over) and you're not gonna get it out and you'll still leave soap that you can't see.

that should be the job of good chemistry. If your able to afford high flow cleaning then you should be buying good products that dont require large volumes of h2o to rinse.

 

[hogjowl]

And just what products are those?

And how do you know?

 

[Farenheit251]

Is high flow really so much water or does it just seem like it compared to regular flow?
How much do you need? In my head I'm thiinking an inch of water deep.

12' x 12' room 144" x 144" = 20736 sq inches
7.5 gallons in a cubic foot 12x12x12=1728 divided by 7.5=230" per gallon
20736 divided by 230= 88 gallons to clean a 12 x 12 room.














Cleaning carpets is making me dumber everyday. Maybe someone else can do the math?

 

[hogjowl]

What price point is the line of demarcation between a "cheap" prespray and a "good" one.

And, how do you really know if you've been able to rinse out one prespray better than any other?


Also, are all "cheap" presprays bad, or is it just the one's used by everybody else?

 

[Loren Egland]

I usually go through between one and two gallons of water per square foot.

Then after it drys I dry vacuum to remove the dry particulate soil that is left behind after the Rotovac flushing/extraction. :? :?: :wink:

 

[sweendogg]

Arguing and Prespray choice aside. Lets look at what high flow is? In my example, I had a prochem quadjet with 4 950015 v jets giving me a value of 06 flow or what buckete tested to be about 1.5 gallons per minute. When I upgaded to a hole glide, jet extenders and bigger jets I elected to use 11003. This gave me a value of 12 flow or 1.9-2.0 gallons per minute. With this setup I run at higher pressure to componstate for the larger aperture. What I notice and in theory what shoudl be happening: The jet extenders bring the flow closer to the carpet so less thermal energy is loss. Also by running more flow, more water comes in contact with the fibers and more thermal energy is being transfered. Even if you lose a few degrees from the increase flow, you are concentrateing it more effieintly into the fiber. So we have more heat reaching the fibers. The soiled carpet we face did not soil over night. Generally the soil we are attacking the supposed " 20%" has accumulated over a month to several years. So thorough prevac helps get alot of that dry soil out so chems work on just the soil bonded to the fibers from the oils, sugars, proteins, etc. Thus it would make sense that running more water through the fiber would mean that you have better ability to flush out as much of that soil, chemicals and residues as possible. Also the polar nature of water is that water particles tend to stick together. The increased flow results in better dry times because there is more recovered water to pull available water atoms and soil with it. Here is some more reading on water:

http://kentsimmons.uwinnipeg.ca/cm1504/water.htm

These are just a few thoughts on high flow. But basics.. if you have more water being flushed through the carpet you can recover the maximum amount of soil, while as long as your vacuum is working, you should see better dry times if you'r setup correctly which means better residue recovery and less products or soil left behind. And since we only clean certain carpets after so many months or years in some cases, don't we want to leave them as clean as we can get them?

 

[Able 1]

Yeah, high flow is great and saves me ALOT of time. I was running the same as you 06 flow, since I changed cleaning has been way more efficient and effective.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I wish Sweeney could be more succinct. He probably has good info he just takes to long to say it for me to NOT SCROLL BY his post. OMFG.

 

[hogjowl]

You are about the fifth person to tell me about my signature. I didn't put it up there, and have no idea how to change it. Bob is the dude who put it there and who did my avatars. I am supposed to have both my avatars and my signatures blocked in my profile, because of the spelling error and because somebody changed my avatar to something I don't like.

Where are you seeing my signature?

 

[Rex Tyus]

What is wrong with Marty's signature? "SOME PIGS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS."

Didn't any of you read ANIMAL FARM in Junior high school?

 

[hogjowl]

You are so weird, Hoodie.

 

[Guest]

Well as said in a previous post; if you don't prevac and add prespray you make mudd carpet; all the above are correct; unless you are from mars or Alabama!! :roll: :roll:

 

[hogjowl]

Ron:
I can't think of the last time I cleaned a carpet without prevacuuming it. However, I am balanced enough to know that some folks take things to extremes, and the balanced perspective needs to be posted, or some poor newbie might think he has to be as weird as you, and proceed to vacuum his way to bankruptcy.

 

[sweendogg]

Ok.. Post pictures and small words for Rex... Got it! More Flow is More Heat is More soil go bye bye!

 

[Greenie]

Animal Farm was awesome.

Thermal Energy Transfer

gotta love it, almost as common speach as BDCC.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Seems to me if prevac is so efficient at removing soil then you shouldnt need so much water flow to remove the left over "attached" stuff.

you shouldn't "need" it... maybe
but why not use it , If it can remove it faster?

clean at 150 PSI
You don't "need" more than that, really

..L.T.A.

 

[KevinL]

You guys mean to tell me that even if a carpet is trashed and will be again soon and you work your asses off and aren't happy unless this carpet comes as clean as possible? Are you the guys that spend 25 minutes in the wash bay trying to get your car showroom clean? It's just going to get dirty again.

 

[gasaxe]

so if you spread fibers and there is noticeable sand/silt on the backing in the traffic areas your not gonna get that out unless you prevac?? How often do you check before you start cleaning or do you just assume all carpets in every house require the same of prevac/prespray/highflow/thermaltransfer/postpadding/postvac..

 

[gasaxe]

would a unglided rotary extractor remove more, less or the same amount of unattached soil than a glided or unglided wand? assuming you did NOT prevac..

 

[Able 1]

You guys mean to tell me that even if a carpet is trashed and will be again soon and you work your asses off and aren't happy unless this carpet comes as clean as possible? Are you the guys that spend 25 minutes in the wash bay trying to get your car showroom clean? It's just going to get dirty again.

I tried that with my kids diapers it dosen't work so well...

 

[sweendogg]

Gasaxe, do yourself a favor, Take a carpet remant, some sand, dirt, chips ext. Poor it over the carpet remannt and walk it in like it was taking daily traffic. Now fire up your truck mount, And seperate the carpet into fourths. Now Use your wand on one fourth of the area with no pre vac, Use high flow wand or rotary on the next fourth with no prevac, and Prevac the third area really well and the fourth area. Then wand the third area and rotary or high flow the fourth. Let all the area dry. Then take an empty vacuum wether bagless or bagged, and run it across each area, and check the soil you pull up and report back to us. If your vac is bagless, it will easier to change between the different sections. Tell us what you found please.

 

[gasaxe]

Gasaxe, do yourself a favor, Take a carpet remant, some sand, dirt, chips ext. Poor it over the carpet remannt and walk it in like it was taking daily traffic. Now fire up your truck mount, And seperate the carpet into fourths. Now Use your wand on one fourth of the area with no pre vac, Use high flow wand or rotary on the next fourth with no prevac, and Prevac the third area really well and the fourth area. Then wand the third area and rotary or high flow the fourth. Let all the area dry. Then take an empty vacuum wether bagless or bagged, and run it across each area, and check the soil you pull up and report back to us. If your vac is bagless, it will easier to change between the different sections. Tell us what you found please.

thanks for the suggestion. I figured someone would have done this and could answer my questions. I do know what happens in the real world when i clean, how I clean, what happens in the above senarios. Just trying to find out what the gurus on here have to say about it.

 

[Loren Egland]

BTW, I meant I use between one and two gallons per square yard, not per square foot.

 

[Greenie]

What is worse that you had a gross typo, or that no one noticed....maybe they just thought you were a part time firefighter?

 

[Ron Werner]

when cleaning residential or non restaurant commercial carpet if your removing so much of the dry soil and contaminants why do so many of you feel the need to have high flow??
Seems to me if prevac is so efficient at removing soil then you shouldnt need so much water flow to remove the left over "attached" stuff.

Dry vac gets the soil OUT of the carpet. (up to 80%)

High flow gets the soil OFF of the carpet. (more oils and stuck on soil)

2 different animals, 2 different tools/methods

 

[rotorob]

To bad Einstein dint lern to spl.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Ok.. Post pictures and small words for Rex... Got it! More Flow is More Heat is More soil go bye bye!

SEE! Was that so hard?