Alternatives to electric belt-driven clutches

[Johnny]

Anyone ever see a driveline transfer case powering a blower in a cargo van? The weak link in commercially-available CDS systems is the belt-driven clutch. With the blower turned by the driveline (a cheap, readily-available 4WD transfer case could be used but a higher gearing might be needed), more torque would be available to turn a blower much bigger than a 47, which seems to be the limit with electric belt clutches. The blower could even be mounted on the transfer case in the chassis to eliminate another power transfer link.

Or what about a hydraulic pump on the transfer case or the front of the engine crank (with a bypass valve) to a hydraulic motor on the blower?

Good night.

 

[Dale]

Hi John:

I'm only answering because nobody else did. I have never used a tranfer type system. But I have worked on them. Both Stanley S, and Coit use them. They do run OK, but are more expensive to build, and use more gas while cleaning.

Your right about the clutch on a CDS. And my son uses them. However, the clutch should run many 1000's of hrs with no trouble. IE: On Butlers we get about 2500 hrs average 4.5-4.7 bowers. And White Magic now has a clutch that will run a 5 blower @ 20" Hg.

So the problem is not the clutch, it is the clutch shaft. For Butlers 7/8" shaft, the clutch mfgs do not presently make a clutch that will preform like the 1" shaft WM. I have converted a Butler to a 1" shaft, and am using the HD clutch to speed up the ration for better gas mileage.

BTW, I am good buddies with your Uncle Sal.......

Thx,
Dale

 

[TimP]

Keep in mind that white magic is under driving that blower and it's also choked down to the tank. It really performs like a #4 blower from what I hear.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

Well wouldnt the tranfer case have to be mounted before the transmission? How would you do that? I am suprised that more companies arent using hydraulic pto like vortexes. its seems so simple to do.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

ProChem had an ill-fated hydraulic drive unit recently. Failed because they didn't understand how to do it. Underspec'ed components to save money and generate more heat.

Thirty years ago HydraMaster built PTO units. Many smaller companies have as well. The components are usually off the shelf, or modified 4wd parts.

Thanks,
Lee

 

[Johnny]

Dale: I have an Uncle Sal? The relatives really come out of the woodwork once you attain fame and fortune.

Anthony: A stock 4WD transfer case would work. Just jack the rear axle off the ground before engaging the blower.

I don't know a lot about drive lines. Just musing about ways to get a bigger direct-drive blower.

Why don't the big trucks mount the blower directly to the pto in the frame to eliminate a power transfer system. Why does it need to be in the cargo box?

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Anyone know about the functionality of Fords transmission pto option? I guess it's an option in the van now.

 

[Greenie]

Why don't the big trucks mount the blower directly to the pto in the frame to eliminate a power transfer system. Why does it need to be in the cargo box?

The old hydraulic Vortex models had the blower behind the rear tire...watch for speed bumps :shock:

As soon as someone figures out a solide in motor that is as reliable as your average chevy 350, the van powered units are numbered, why would you power a carpet cleaning machine with a v-8 if you didn't have to? Space is the only reason I can think of, and that would be the last reason to choose a butler.

 

[The Great Oz]

As soon as someone figures out a solide in motor that is as reliable as your average chevy 350, the van powered units are numbered, why would you power a carpet cleaning machine with a v-8 if you didn't have to? Space is the only reason I can think of, and that would be the last reason to choose a butler.

But the first reason to consider a Hydramaster CDS.


The first PTOs were all driveline take off units, but the cost is a downside, as is the extended time (and cost) of installation. The extra cost makes a driveline PTO a tough sell over using an electric clutch, since there's a shortage of cost-is-no-object carpet cleaners. The electric clutch is also a cheap and easy replacement part if it does fail.

Every engineer in this industry has a dream that they'll be the one to master the hydraulic driven truckmount. The benefits to the builder are in the ease of running hydraulic lines, the cost savings of using the pre-existing hydraulic pump in the truck transmission, and capturing the generated heat. Steamway was almost done in by hydraulic line failures, scaldings and fires before pulling their hydraulic unit off of the market. Desperate to field a PTO unit Prochem gave it another shot, trusting advances in hydraulic fittings and putting the hoses inside tubing in case of failures. That unit was also extremely problematic and died quickly. The current Prochem PTO is a Cleanco, reliably driven by an electric clutch.

 

[Larry Cobb]

I looked into the transmission PTO van trucks.

Generally, you had to buy a large V-8 engine option to get the PTO transmission.

So, the final result would be poor gas mileage.

Larry