Another Tech Bites The Dust!

BLewis

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Crap, I decided to let my tech go Monday (yeah Ashley that one that was late everyday for my 80k job and missed one day all together) I just got tired of him being late for jobs and missing them when he didn't want to work.

You know the one, I want all the hours you can give me in one breath, in the next it's hey man I Gots something I need to do I'm going to miss the next job.

I did create a company policy over the summer but it was way to lienuit. After (1) 3 day suspension things got better for like a week, then SOS
 

Greg Cole

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BLewis said:
Crap, I decided to let my tech go Monday (yeah Ashley that one that was late everyday for my 80k job and missed one day all together) I just got tired of him being late for jobs and missing them when he didn't want to work.

You know the one, I want all the hours you can give me in one breath, in the next it's hey man I Gots something I need to do I'm going to miss the next job.

I did create a company policy over the summer but it was way to lienuit. After (1) 3 day suspension things got better for like a week, then SOS as before.

.

Be careful, Unless you have properly documented his dismissal (and have an employee handbook showing the policy you are refering to), you could be sued for wrongful termination.
If you have EVER made exceptions for other employees for being late, a case can be made against you.
 

The Great Oz

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I assume you're more concerned about having a guy that didn't work out and having to replace him than about the fired employee being upset. Remember that no matter how sophisticated your hiring procedures, hiring is always a crapshoot. Large HR departments make about the same number of mistakes as the small company owner, the large company is just quicker to dump their mistakes and absorbs the turnover better. Tough to train a new person when you're busy, but I think a good attitude guy with not enough training beats an experienced jerk every time.


Warnings, suspensions, written notices... it's always best to make sure no employee is surprised by being fired, but if you aren't the government or own a Canadian business you don't have to prove the employee was an idiot. Almost all States assume at-will employment status even if it isn't covered in your employee manual. Employees don't have to give you a reason why they quit working for you, and you don't have to give them a reason why you fired them. (Check with your State to see if there are local laws that require a certain procedure to be followed prior to termination.)

Employers often worry about being sued, but an ex-employees winning a wrongful dismissal lawsuit is unlikely. A winning case makes the news because the company has to be truly horrific or have obviously violated a discrimination law to lose.
 

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We just cut a new guy today, didn't even make it 3- complete days. thathurts

Dan said he interviewed well, had a good attitude but damn if that dude wouldn't listen to what he was told to do.

I figured he wasn't going to make it when he didn't follow instructions as to what time to show up for his first day of work.

Dan told him 8:30 and he was here at 7:40, a little early shows initiative but 50-minutes told me he doesn't follow instructions well.

We worked with him the last couple of days and he just plain had trouble doing what was told. He had his own ideas and today was enough, he wasn't going to change and we can't have someone that doesn't do as instructed. They called to pick him up off the job site just a few minutes ago, they didn't want him anymore. :mrgreen:

It's no wonder there are so many are unemployed! :roll:

Time for big D to go back to the sandwich shop, we took two of their employees last year and they are still here doing great. :twisted:
 

Greg Cole

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The Great Oz said:
I assume you're more concerned about having a guy that didn't work out and having to replace him than about the fired employee being upset. Remember that no matter how sophisticated your hiring procedures, hiring is always a crapshoot. Large HR departments make about the same number of mistakes as the small company owner, the large company is just quicker to dump their mistakes and absorbs the turnover better. Tough to train a new person when you're busy, but I think a good attitude guy with not enough training beats an experienced jerk every time.


Warnings, suspensions, written notices... it's always best to make sure no employee is surprised by being fired, but if you aren't the government or own a Canadian business you don't have to prove the employee was an idiot. Almost all States assume at-will employment status even if it isn't covered in your employee manual. Employees don't have to give you a reason why they quit working for you, and you don't have to give them a reason why you fired them. (Check with your State to see if there are local laws that require a certain procedure to be followed prior to termination.)

Employers often worry about being sued, but an ex-employees winning a wrongful dismissal lawsuit is unlikely. A winning case makes the news because the company has to be truly horrific or have obviously violated a discrimination law to lose.


The likelyhood of one winning does not escuse good hiring and firing procedures. Whether you win or lose- the legal fees and time spent in court still end up as a loss for you. Always release people for the right reason.
 

Desk Jockey

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Whether you win or lose- the legal fees and time spent in court still end up as a loss for you.
Ain't that the truth. We just collected $7000.00 from a little mold loss from two years ago. Too bad it took two years and $15,000.00 in attorney's fee's to do it. Mainly because he is an attorney and he counter sued us probably to save face, who knows, maybe just because he's an ass. ? :x

We won. :roll:

and we're only down $8,000.00 to collect it!
 

joe harper

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Gordon Geckko said:
Whether you win or lose- the legal fees and time spent in court still end up as a loss for you.
Ain't that the truth. We just collected $7000.00 from a little mold loss from two years ago. Too bad it took two years and $15,000.00 in attorney's fee's to do it. Mainly because he is an attorney and he counter sued us probably to save face, who knows, maybe just because he's an ass. ? :x

We won. :roll:

and we're only down $8,000.00 to collect it!


Richard..

Why wouldn't you just LEIN the property...? And avoid the Attorney Fees...?
 

Desk Jockey

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How's the story go? The frog jumps out of the pot if it's boiling water but if you turn the heat up slowly you'll cook him. That was us we got cooked slowly.

Our attorney started out with "oh probably a misunderstanding, the guy is probably busy, just let me just send him a letter to prod him".

Then after some back and forth comments from both sides it was finally determined we would need to sue if we wanted anything out of him. When we filed he got pissed and counter sued us and most of the effort was spent defending trumped up claims.

We won :roll: , but some how it doesn't feel like winning.

It was a mess! I'm really not sure which attorney got the best of me. The crook or "our" attorney. The crook dinged me for $7,000.00 (of which he was forced to pay us), our attorney $16,000.00. :shock:

But I haven't lost my faith in the justice system...........................oh no that was done many years ago during a divorce. thathurts

You'll always lose if you go to court, it's just a matter of how much. They really shouldn't use the term "winner" when it comes to courts. There should be a loser and the guy who loses less! Oh and you might as well get rid of the word "Justice" while you at it.

How about we just call it what it is, "the best system we have"? I'm good with anything as long as we quit fooling people by calling it "Justice", cause it ain't!
:|
 

joeynbgky

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Billy.... I was a restaurant manager and area manager and have terminated many managers and employees. As I am sure u have as well. I am very sure billy knows how to cover his butt... but when I terminate someone in my own business it is. Harder for me to do for some reason. As a restaurant manager I was never leanient. But as a business owner I am very for some reason. My employees use to be scared of me and call me an asshole back then..... its much different owning my own, or I have just gotten soft in my older age

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
 

Desk Jockey

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James we should have at least deserved that in my opinion but no each was left to pay for their own council. Of course it only cost him his time. Oh it could have been worse had we not had clearance testing. He wastrying to blame us for mold returning. Dumb ass didn't understand that clearance proved we did what we were hired to do.He is the kind that gives lawyer's a bad name. He is still suing the CIH, the remodeler and roofer. I doubt this guy pays any of his bills unless forced to do so.

Oh well, live and learn.

Hopefully we exposed him and saved the next guy he planned on burning.
 
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Gordon Geckko said:
James we should have at least deserved that in my opinion but no each was left to pay for their own council. Of course it only cost him his time. Oh it could have been worse had we not had clearance testing. He wastrying to blame us for mold returning. Dumb ass didn't understand that clearance proved we did what we were hired to do.He is the kind that gives lawyer's a bad name. He is still suing the CIH, the remodeler and roofer. I doubt this guy pays any of his bills unless forced to do so.

Oh well, live and learn.

Hopefully we exposed him and saved the next guy he planned on burning.


In my experience, 4 people are the hardest to do work for. Which include but not limited to Teachers, Attorney's, Doctors, & Clergy. Mark my words, they will be the most difficult ones of the bunch.
 

Desk Jockey

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Can't say we do alot of teachers or clergy but we do a lot of work for many doctors. Attorneys, well we have had a few that have been problems but no more than the average person. However it does make me feel a little uncomfortable. When I know they are an attorney, unless they are already a regular client.
 

BLewis

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Joey I concur. When we opened a Ryan's (and I was involved in opening over 25) the company directive was to hire around 175 knowing that the staff would quickly dwindle to first 125 then 100 then to around 75 which was your ending crew.

However, this is totally different. As for me when I only have one tech and you spend months getting them trained so that one day you may get off the truck "some" and focus on building sales even more. You tend to be more leanient and "soft" I guess, however I think through this I realize that you must have policies in place just like when we worked for the Big Corporations, and I think from now on I will enforce them very strickly. I am considering hiring 2 "part time" techs this time and taking the best of the 2 after 30 day trial. Another issue that becomes a problem is like as a manager you became close to your staff because you spent as much time with them as you did your family. Well in this business you spend even more time one on one time with a tech and no matter how you slice it you will get close. I never hung out with my tech, never had a beer with him, never friended him on facebook, but I was closer to him than I probably should have been. I never had a problem showing "tough love" when friends or family worked for me in the resty business I was usually harder on them by far so that others couldn't claim that I was showing favoritism.

This is a different set-up for sure. I'm sure I will learn all the ends and outs of hiring and retaining the best techs at SFS next week. I know I didn't pay the best but I do not believe in rewarding poor performance. I start at $10. per hour after 30 days give $1.00 increase would have given another $1. if performance had maintained after 6 months and so on. However, when the issues started showing up the increases stopped and he was made well aware that there was more money to be made when the performance justified it. On smaller jobs of less than 2 hours (like a small restaurant) I always paid for a minimum of 2 hours if that's all we did that night. I even went so far as to share with him my asperations of paying a base plus percentage of job, plus percentage of up sales when he was on his own truck. He knew the 2nd truck was coming and the time was near but he continued to screw up. So now my Vortex will set idle in the driveway while I am away for a week at SFS. I was going to let him do jobs while I was gone after trying him out this week. Who knows maybe he didn't want to go solo. I do believe there are "helpers" or grunt people and there are those that want to grow and really make something of it. It's just a matter of learning to being able to put them in their respective place quickly. The best cook I ever had in the restaurant business was a 50 year old recovering alcoholic that drove me crazy for over a year, but later became my most dependable, consistant cook ever, and later became a very steady consistant asst. mgr. for years.

I scheduled them alot of days when I didn't even need them (like when I had 3-4 small jobs) just to keep his hours up there.

Without a doubt my biggest weakness as an 0/0 is the same weakness when I supervised 10 Ryans or 30 mil a year, and that is that I am a very hands on type individual and it took 2-3 years of "coaching" from my superior at Ryans to get me to let go of the reins. The biggest issue with letting go here is that I only have the one truck and I was not comfortable letting it out of my sight. I know that train of thought will change when I get a back up rig.

Oh, and Steve you may feel free to use me as your guinnea pig next week since Marty won't be there!
 

Shane Deubell

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Never heard of a cleaner hiring a lawyer for wrongful termination, iguess it happens but not very often. The worse case if you become stuck is eating the unemployment charges, which is not a problem if only done once in a awhile.

The sign of a good tech is pre-planning skills, kind of like evolution. The difference between a chimp/human is humans can pre-plan years in advance and chimps poop,eat and take a nap.

I dont know if it is laziness,genetics or what but some employees just cant or will not think ahead to the next task.
 

Royal Man

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10 buck an hour!! You have to be freaking kidding!!

I don't blame the tech for quitting. My helper gets 15-20 bucks an hour just for helping and a $40 a day minimum. You can't at least pay 20 percent?

You would then have happier and more motivated techs (That won't have to live with Mom.)and your bottom line would increase with proper sales training. Or do you just want chimps instead of sales and service pros?
 

BLewis

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Thanks Dave for your input, I now understand why you have grown to a multi truck operation!
 

Desk Jockey

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:lol: Gotta love this place! You guys are funny!

$10.00 is decent pay in our company, you'd need to be able to lead a crew to make more or show proficency in one of the services we offer where you can generate income on your own.

If you're just a hose holder or fetch boy $9.00 until you become of value. Training, experience and desire will earn you more. Some can move upward fast, others are like turtles and do not move significantly. We need both movers and turtles but we encourge them all to be movers. However some are content just being a turtle, they don't want responsibility. :|
 

Royal Man

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If you don't want my advise. Look at Ken's model. He pays a percentage (around 20%+, I believe ) and he get modivated techs that have sales skills and make a good living. For 10 bucks an hour why should the tech sell teflon, get other rooms whlie they are there and other services that could easily raise your bottom line by 50% or more.

While they also improve their own paycheck.

IMHO: You are saving pennies and throwing away dollars.

I do agree with Gordon/Chavez that some guys just don't have the modivation, drive, personality and verbal skills to become a great tech. (This is a sales and service business at least for resi.)
 

BLewis

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Now that I have picked myself up after being bitched slapped down by Dave. I feel a little better now after Richard's comments. My guy would have been at $13. Currently if he had been on time regularly and not No Called No Showed for jobs! And I don't (did 't) hold him responsible for that, but knew it was my fault for allowing it to continue to happen, but when your way up in sales it's tougher to cut loose your only tech. Once he was operating his own truck I was planning on something like $8. base plus 10% of residentials and 5% of commercials plus 20% of up sales. But, I will repeat I won't reward when there is a lack of performance. I like to measure honesty, depenablity, amount of knowledge, then the performance of said knowledge, and attitude. To me those 5 things say it all.
 
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Dave Yoakum said:
I don't blame the tech for quitting. My helper gets 15-20 bucks an hour just for helping and a $40 a day minimum. You can't at least pay 20 percent?

You would then have happier and more motivated techs (That won't have to live with Mom.)and your bottom line would increase with proper sales training. Or do you just want chimps instead of sales and service pros?


What determines that huge variance in hourly pay for your 1 helper? Is your helper 10-99 or actually a legal employee?
Do you pay your helper so well because he's making you more money by following your advanced sales training? If your helper is doing the sales then wtf are you doing there, eye candy for the ladies? :lol:
 

Royal Man

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The variance in his pay is he is on percentage. The more we make the more he gets. (Monday he will make $180 for about 6 hours.)

Does that piss me off. NO.

I still am making a killing and keeping 85%

Come on guys. Even paper hat entry jobs pay 8 buck an hour.

You guys brag about making 100-200 per hour and at the same time find some sap to work for 10 bucks an hour. WTF!!

Adding on a couple of bedroom traffic areas or a little Teflon could pay for their entire days wages in a few minutes. You could pay their entire weeks pay by noon on Monday.

This work is a lot more demanding than just asking, "Would you like fries with that?"
 

joe harper

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Dave Yoakum said:
The variance in his pay is he is on percentage. The more we make the more he gets. (Monday he will make $180 for about 6 hours.)

Does that piss me off. NO.

I still am making a killing and keeping 85%

Come on guys. Even paper hat entry jobs pay 8 buck an hour.

You guys brag about making 100-200 per hour and at the same time find some sap to work for 10 bucks an hour. WTF!!

Adding on a couple of bedroom traffic areas or a little Teflon could pay for their entire days wages in a few minutes. You could pay their entire weeks pay by noon on Monday.

This work is a lot more demanding than just asking, "Would like fries with that?"


Dave........GET OFF MY ComPuTeR.... :mrgreen:
 

idreadnought

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Dave,

Do you pay your helper commission or is he solo?

If he is just your helper then you should be doing the upselling not him. If he is solo then 15% is kinda low in my opinion. but whatever works for you.
 

rick imby

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Advice my father gave me a long time ago.

"The employees you fire will not cause you near as many problems as the employees you should have fired."

Rick
 

BLewis

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I don'tthink ST seen my post before SFS or if so he was kind enough to not embarrass me in front of the group. Dave if it makes you feel better you were pretty much on the money with your train of thought. After some thought I really still don't feel like I was underpaying this particular tech at 11.00 per hour I was just allowing him to stay on when I should have cut my losses a long time ago. The money was there to be had he just couldn't claim it.
After the course I see yet another small increase in prices afterthe beginning of the year as well as more for Scothgard ao I can pay new guy 20% commission on all Scothgard sales when he is solo.
 

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