Apex problem...

[Able 1]

Can't figure this one out.. I can run it all day hooked up directly to a water source, but if I either turn on the supply pump or the auto pump out it seem to kill the fuel pump(just a guess) and die after running 45 seconds or so. :x Is there any reason I couldn't just put a togle switch for the fuel pump and be done with it?



Thanks for any help...

 

[XTREME1]

those would be on seperate breakers. Are you popping any breakers on the front of the machine?

 

[Able 1]

No, the breakers don't pop. It just "seems" to run out of gas...

 

[joe harper]

Does the problem occur on the first job or after a couple of jobs... :?:

How old is your fuel pump..?

 

[Able 1]

I replaced the fuel pump with a used one with low hours. I ran it for about 6 hours with no problem(directly hooked up to a water supply), but once I turn on the auto pump out it dies. Funny you mention the breakers it looks like 2 were replaced :shock: I think interlink Seattle was just happy to get it out of there state!

Here's a vid.

 

[joe harper]

is your fuel pump mounted on the machine frame ..or..under the van..?

 

[Able 1]

Machine frame...

 

[joe harper]

I removed ALL..my fuel pumps on all of Prochem.'s...EXCESSIVE HEAT..especially in the summer..

Re-mounted on the floors.."closer" to the fuel tank..these small fuel pumps LABOR
to DRAW fuel over 4 ft....But can PUSH the fuel 10ft...with NO problem... :wink:

On the Older 405 & 805...I ground to the frame...then extend the hot wire to the
ignition switch...The pumps last twice as long...away form the engine heat & HX...


Of course ....your switch controlling the APO...could be over-heating...shutting down the fuel pump.. :idea:

A good way to check if the fuel pump is OVERHEATING...is to position a BLOWER
directly on it...See if it takes it LONGER to shut-down...if at all...

One more question...After the unit..shuts-down..!!!..Is the fuel pump still running..?

if it IS...Your pump needs to be replaced..You have a FUEL problem..NOT electrical..!

It is overheating & loosing its PRIME...ETHANHOL..is a MAJOR factor in the "premature"
FAILURE.....

 

[joe harper]

just a guess here but wouldn't it also be possible that the battery is on its way out? Excessive draw when the apo is on?

I ask because of the amount of time it takes to shut down.

I don't think so...because in the VID...the pump-out continues to RUN...

If the battery is failing...He should have some STARTING issues..

These DAMN machines have a thousand "Wiring harnesses" & sensors..

Sound like a FUEL problem...because the UNIT doesn't seem to just "KILL"...
like a sensor will do...It diesels...until it runs OUT of fuel... :?


I think it is the FUEL Pump... :idea:

I had a simalr problem....It drove me CRAZY...My unit would SHUT-DOWN at exactly 20 minutes..."WeIrD"... :x

 

[Able 1]

The battery is brand new... I will do the same exact thing if I turn just the supply pump on. If I have both (supply and auto dump) off it will continue to run with out a problem for hours. :?

Will the fuel pump continue to run while the TM is running or does it turn on and off to maintain a certain pressure? Could I just put a switch on it?

Thanks

 

[joe harper]

He wouldn't necessarily have starting issues. Just not enough juice to run both and the pump would win by default. Not saying it isn't something else but worth checking imo..............only take a few minutes

!gotcha!

 

[joe harper]

The battery is brand new... I will do the same exact thing if I turn just the supply pump on. If I have both (supply and auto dump) off it will continue to run with out a problem for hours. :?

Will the fuel pump continue to run while the TM is running or does it turn on and off to maintain a certain pressure? Could I just put a switch on it?

Thanks

Your fuel pump will run constantly..Your "EFI"... The computer controls the fuel pressure..to the engine..

Your fuel pump just delivers fuel to the EFI system...

It is the same principal...as bAwBs "penis" functions NOW...
bAwBs "peenie"...has NO other "function"...other than a conduit for urine travel
to the outside world..... :mrgreen:

 

[joe harper]

Last question and I'll leave it to the experts. Why the new battery?
Batteries are only new when purchased and fully charged. After that they are dependent on the charging circuit to be replenished so the battery may not be getting the juice it needs. Over time this would result in "battery failure"

I am just "guessing " ALSO...

The real EXPERTS...will be here soon..."hopefully"... :wink:

Fred ..these machines are sooooo...Tempermental...you could be RIGHT... 8)

 

[joe harper]

HEY LES...."I see you are on-line"... 8)

Got any :idea:



bawb is STILL in Church...

 

[Able 1]

Not sure why it needed a new batt,it did sit for 4 months without being started(maybe a parisitic drain don't know).. The Apex is not EFI, it's got a 31 horse Kubota. So the actual fuel pump has a pressure switch? It will turn on and off as needed?

 

[Able 1]

Last question and I'll leave it to the experts. Why the new battery?
Batteries are only new when purchased and fully charged. After that they are dependent on the charging circuit to be replenished so the battery may not be getting the juice it needs. Over time this would result in "battery failure"

It's charging...

 

[Ron Werner]

its diesel, isn't it? so it would have nothing to do with the battery, but the alternator, but since its charging you've eliminated that.
Will it charge under load?
Does the Kubota have an electric fuel pump or mechanical?
My Perkins has a electric solenoid that is an electromagnet that turns on the fuel switch in the pump. If its failing it would shut off your fuel.

 

[Able 1]

No this one's gas.. 14.45 under the load of the vac. port covered/wash pump on.
Electric fuel pump.

 

[Able 1]

And volts stay at 14.45 with the P/O on till it dies.. When it dies the fuel pump isn't running there after.

 

[rwcarpet]

It sounds like something is activating the "shut down" system, in which it won't keep running until you turn the switch off, and restart. In my case, it was a loose wire connector at the coil. It would break contact after it warmed up, thus shutting down my machine. My old 405 would do that.

Is that the only output from your APO?? Looks pretty weak.

Another thought......does your APO use a water prime like my Jabsco APO from PowerClean? It pulls quite a bit of water from the system to keep the Jabsco primed while it is pumping out the waste tank. It will drain my water supply if I have low pressure at the job site. On the Pro Chem machines like I had, it had a lot of shut down sensors, so low water pressure would shut it down.

Man, I just hate those shut down problems.

 

[Able 1]

It sounds like something is activating the "shut down" system, in which it won't keep running until you turn the switch off, and restart. In my case, it was a loose wire connector at the coil. It would break contact after it warmed up, thus shutting down my machine. My old 405 would do that.It'll run all day till I hit the switch then takes a while to start like it ran out of gas and I have to choke it to start

Is that the only output from your APO?? Looks pretty weak.It's a diaphram pump.. I was "told" it can pump out pee gravel :shock:

Another thought......does your APO use a water prime like my Jabsco APO from PowerClean? It pulls quite a bit of water from the system to keep the Jabsco primed while it is pumping out the waste tank. It will drain my water supply if I have low pressure at the job site. On the Pro Chem machines like I had, it had a lot of shut down sensors, so low water pressure would shut it down.I was thinking low water pressure since the demand pump is mounted higher then the water tank just dosen't explain why it shut down when the pump out is on

Man, I just hate those shut down problems.

 

[Doug Cox]

Keith- I just had a shutdown/ hard starting problem on mine which looked like a fuel pump and/or charging issue which turned out to be the ignition switch. I had numerous symptoms at the same time which made it hard to diagnose.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Keith I had problems with my Everest shutting down or running rough in higher speeds. First the fuel lines should have a supply line and a return line that needs to be run back to the tank or filler neck. My return line was run back to the supply line so the fuel could have been getting too hot. That was just one problem. My machine sat for a year and the throttle body was sticking. This was the last place I looked. Oh yea we replaced the speed selector switch. Since having the throttle body flap loosened up manually my machine has run perfect with zero problems for 6 months. The return line needs to go to the tank so the fuel will not get too hot.

Your switch could be bad that controls the apo and demand pump. I doubt you have a fuel problem if the machine runs with water hooked up but not with the demand pump. I would check the switch first.

If I am not mistaken the speed control switch is the same as the apo/demand pump switch.

Does your Apex have an ECU? If it does turn the key but don't crank the machine. The machine will flash a series or one and then two signal lights or the number twelve three times. Then it will give a code like 43 by signaling 4 flashes and then a pause followed by three. It will keep giving that code until the mahcine is shut down. If it keeps flashing 12 then everything is working as is. For example if you have a fouled plug etc you will get a code.

I would call Prochem and let them work you through the troubleshooting process.

 

[Able 1]

Yeah Doug, thing about this is it will run f-o-r-e-v-e-r if I don't flip the switch. If I do flip the switch and nothing activates(lets say the auto pump isn't full enough to pump) it will run fine, just when either thing (demand pump or pump out) actually runs it kills the fuel pump. I have been racking my brain on this one. I really don't want to take it in since you guys know more then either of distys in my area. If I take it in can I tell them "I'm not paying for anything they throw at it if they don't figure it out"? shiteatinggrin

You guys think they could share the same(bad?) ground?

 

[Able 1]

Daniel not sure if it has an ECU I'll have to watch the light next time..

Looks like two seperate lines to me:

I'll tell Chuck(from prochem) to check out this site about my problems...

 

[joe harper]

Daniel not sure if it has an ECU I'll have to watch the light next time..

Looks like two seperate lines to me:

I'll tell Chuck(from prochem) to check out this site about my problems...

That is the proper ...fuel tap... :wink:

 

[GeneMiller]

make sure the wires are good to both the pump and the apo. cut the ends off and check for corrosion. wires corrode on the inside where you can't see it. also make sure no wires are touching or worn through, should kick a breaker but you never know. I recently had a problem which turned out to be a broken wire which only showed at certain speeds, due to vibration, the wire would lose contact. Maybe the apo coming on is causing a similar problem.

gene

 

[bob vawter]

The battery is brand new... I will do the same exact thing if I turn just the supply pump on. If I have both (supply and auto dump) off it will continue to run with out a problem for hours. :?

Will the fuel pump continue to run while the TM is running or does it turn on and off to maintain a certain pressure? Could I just put a switch on it?

Thanks

Your fuel pump will run constantly..Your "EFI"... The computer controls the fuel pressure..to the engine..

Your fuel pump just delivers fuel to the EFI system...

It is the same principal...as bAwBs "penis" functions NOW...
bAwBs "peenie"...has NO other "function"...other than a conduit for urine travel
to the outside world..... :mrgreen:

leave my penis ALONE Joe.........yous ain't right to talk about another man's penis..ya know

in the meantime...can you install a pressure gauge in line to watch for a pressure drop....?

 

[Able 1]

make sure the wires are good to both the pump and the apo. cut the ends off and check for corrosion. wires corrode on the inside where you can't see it. also make sure no wires are touching or worn through, should kick a breaker but you never know. I recently had a problem which turned out to be a broken wire which only showed at certain speeds, due to vibration, the wire would lose contact. Maybe the apo coming on is causing a similar problem.

gene

I'll check that tomorrow... Maybe a common ground wire? what else could the 2 have to do with each other? Lots of rust in Seattle also... Could be!

 

[Able 1]

in the meantime...can you install a pressure gauge in line to watch for a pressure drop....?

I could... You can tell it's running out of gas, though. I used to cut gas for a friend of mine.. :wink: