Atten: blower engineers...

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

This is what a distributor says about Kunkles. I'm questioning their advise on matching horse power with blowers....

"....can be added to any truckmount with a twin cylinder hp engine that has extra horse power left over in the design.
Example: 30 hp with a 47 blower is not OK, while a 34 Hp with a 47 blower is OK.
The 30 hp already bogs the engine when it is loaded with heavy vacuum work.
a 15 hp with a 36 bower is not OK
a 18 hp with a 36 blower is not OK, while a 20 hp with a 36 blower is OK
a 20 hp with a 45 blower is not OK while a 25 hp with a 45 blower is OK, but 27 would be better.
a 13 hp single cylinder with a 33 blower is not OK, while a 16 hp twin cylinder engine with a 33 blower is OK."

I've used a Kunkle on 2 different rigs, considering a 3rd. My question to you is why is the load on a blower any different with a spring/dics relief (comes stock on every truckmount) versus a Kunkle relief set at the same setting? Does anyone here ( I don't) see any difference in the engineered leaking that a spring/disc provided to that of the Kunkle which keeps the leak in a much narrower band close to the set point? The tank and the blower are under the same load at the top end. I think they confuse the "left over" horse power with final load that either system sees with either relief valve. A load is a load?

Think about it, appreciate any thoughts...

 

[Mikey P]

So you want to see your 370 hit 13 or 14" quicker?

 

[Onfire_02_01]

I may be wrong on this but there should be no correlation between a kunkle or spring relief valve and any blower motor combination. Any relief valve will simply allow air into the system when a preset vacuum pressure has been achieved, Ie 13,14,15 inches of mercury to maintain that preset vacuum pressure. There is a correlation between what the vacuum pressure is set at and the horsepower of the engine however. The more vacuum you have in a system the more the engine will bog down, ie an open hose vs covering the hose with your hand.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

That's what I thought, a load is a load and relief is relief.

Not exactly Mike, hitting the set point sooner is not the real benefit of a Kunkle on our carpet rigs. I've never had a rig without one. The spring/disc on our 370's starts bypassing down around 8"hg.

 

[Louis]

Some of those valves are set to 16hg before they let any air in. As long as you get one that will adjust to lower if you don't have the hp to red line the blower all the time you will be ok.

 

[FredC]

There is no relief creep with the kunkle so your engine will be under more stress and will bog if there isn't extra available hp.

Spring relief valves usually start to open well before their set point....as you noted.....never reaching the upper load hp requirement




plus factor in that although you may think you have "spare" hp when looking at blower curves those curves are based on electric motors @ continous hp.

A gas motor isn't as efficient, makes peak hp at a very specific point in the curve, and peak isn't meant to be continuous @dgardner can probably correct what I just wrote

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Few waste tanks will reliably handle prolonged high lift without problems.

 

[Able 1]

Both my Prochem open at 15.. Both have 10 year old abused tanks..

 

[dealtimeman]

Vortex tanks ( for the most part) can take 20 inches of mercury with no problem.

I have seen it a couple of times. Guys are pissed whe I set the vac relief back to 15 or 16 inches.

They think( I weakened their unit)

Fred's post is correct. Most units barely have the hp to operate and the spring type reliefs offer a soft relief as to not stress the engine to its operation limits.

I will say most of the big guys do this on purpose as operating on the higher side of their operating hp creates the heat for the heat exchanger, that wouldn't be achieved using an engine operating at 60 percent of its capacity vs an engine operating at damn near 95 percent or 100 percent of its capacity.

I think a sweat spot to efficiency is to have a unit that at its highest operational speed under "normal load" and it be using only 80 or less of its available power as I believe this will lead to good operation as well as extended service life for the unit.

This is why I like the sapphire ss2500, prochem Everest, ss870 for a slide ins as they are way under their operational available hp under load.

 

[dgardner]

There is no relief creep with the kunkle so your engine will be under more stress and will bog if there isn't extra available hp.
Spring relief valves usually start to open well before their set point....as you noted.....never reaching the upper load hp requirement
plus factor in that although you may think you have "spare" hp when looking at blower curves those curves are based on electric motors @ continous hp.
A gas motor isn't as efficient, makes peak hp at a very specific point in the curve, and peak isn't meant to be continuous @dgardner can probably correct what I just wrote

Fred, what you wrote is pretty much spot on. The only part I may differ on is that the gas engine efficiency really doesn't affect the situation, hp is hp, no matter how much energy goes into producing it. The fact that the electric motor's rating is continuous output and the gas engine's rating is peak hp as you stated - definitely does come into play. Also, as you alluded to, the peak hp and peak torque points are not the same on a gas engine, unlike the electric motor. Torque really drives the blower, not hp.

A typical engineering rule of thumb is 3/5 - a 3hp electric motor would need a 5hp gasoline engine to be comparable.

 

[dgardner]

I think a sweat spot to efficiency is to have a unit that at its highest operational speed under "normal load" and it be using only 80 or less of its available power as I believe this will lead to good operation as well as extended service life for the unit.

Agreed. It is poor engineering to design a unit (or modify one) to run at or near 100% of the engine's rating. Unless you really like rebuilding or replacing engines....

 

[Mikey P]

Let's get real here..

Want better dry times?

1. Get as much dry soil out as possible
2. Don't over apply your pre spray
3. Don't rely on an emulsifier to do the cleaning, use an acid side rinse instead
4. Scrub.
5. Lots of dry strokes.

 

[dgardner]

Mikey is now Mr. practical. How quaint....

 

[Mikey P]

On the other hand, my Vortex get more reliable the older it gets


Go figure.

 

[Cleanworks]

Ditch the aciid rinse

 

[dealtimeman]

On the other hand, my Vortex get more reliable the older it gets


Go figure.

I remember you saying on multiple occasion that it was a big pos, and I think someone might have said to you to just keep running her and give it love and maintenance and she will run for a long time.

 

[dealtimeman]

"Mikey P, post: 4474884, member: 40098"]Let's get real here..


Modified by me.

Want better dry times?

1. Get as much dry soil out as possible
2. Don't over apply your pre spray
3. Just use clean water or better to use soft water.
4. Scrub most of the times.
5. A few dry strokes.
6. Set up fans while you pick up hoses and get paid.

 

[Mikey P]

Texas law and order..

 

[dealtimeman]

If it works in my humidity I can't imagine the wonder it would do for you in the desert with the absence of humidity.