Bashing VLM

[Walrus Gumboot]

Do any of you steam cleaners bash VLM cleaning techniques in your advertising?
Do you warn potential customers that VLM methods produce inferior results?
Besides the "method most recommended by manufacturers" line that we all use to justify steam cleaning, do you go beyond that and specifically mention any of the problems you feel like are associated with VLM methods?

I think we(steam cleaners) should make an effort to bash these inferior cleaners every chance we get,just like they do us.
Every single one of them are just alike, and their scare tactic marketing is creating a service industry with lowered quality results.

Is "DRY" carpet the objective?
Is "Somewhat cleaner,but DRY" a standard that you should strive to achieve?



With all due respect,Wayne....

"A concerned carpet cleaner wrote to an industry magazine some years ago about his hot water extraction process, often referred to as "steam cleaning." His equipment sprayed pressurized water into the carpet at a rate of three gallons per minute, or one hundred-eighty gallons per hour. His concern? At that rate, even if ninety percent of the water were recovered there could still be as much as eighteen gallons unaccounted for. Our Controlled-Moisture System could perform three or four average cleanings with the water this fellow was concerned about leaving behind!"


bite me

 

[joe harper]

Since when is trlling the "TRUTH"...considered bAsHing... :?:

 

[Tony Dees]

I don't bash them, I just tell the client "every method has its purpose, I can clean any way they want, just residentially, I prefer HWE, commercially a combination"

Don't let it get you mad, just think of a better way to position yourself without bashing the other guy and usually you are the victor.

Hope this helps

 

[BRSUMMERVILLE]

I've been cleaning VLM (Dry Foam Extraction)aprox.16 years. All my customers tell me that I cleaned their carpet better than a steam cleaner. It's an approved method by the IICRC. The method is not inferior. There are a number of inferior technicians that uses any method. Including HWE.

The problem with a number of HWE cleaners is they have a mind set that they are better than any body else and talked bad about any method they don't like..

It seems that Stevie Bs don't like his local competition.

 

[Johnny]

I tell those who ask that I have both systems. I greatly prefer HWE, but will use the inferior system if they insist. Nobody ever wants VLM when the difference (rinsing) is explained.

I will sometimes VLM a carpet AFTER it the dirt is RINSED OUT with HWE.

Most steam cleaners have VLM equipment. Why don't most VLMers have steam equipment? Because they are unwilling to make the much greater investment in the superior system.

 

[Mikey P]

Nothing worse than a one system hack.

 

[Wayne Miller]

With all due respect, Steve, it was in Cleanfax back in the early or mid 90's. I quoted him pretty much verbatum. I'm not bashing HWE anymore than he is.

He was simply asking, "where does it go?" Kinda like you asking "where does the dirt go" about VLM methods. He never suggested there was anything wrong, he never suggested he was causing a problem, neither am I.

Do the math yourself. Three gallons/minute is 180 gallons/hour. If you've used 180 gallons over the course of a job or a day and you've recovered 90% then eighteen gallons went somewhere. I'm not suggesting it's causing a problem wherever it went. It's just a simple way to parallel one of the biggest differences between two systems. You use a friggin' lot more water than me.

And, for what it's worth, Steve, if you're doing your job there's not a thing I say about my cleaning that you shouldn't be able to say about yours.

 

[Bjorn]

'The quiet hum of our equipment and absence of strong, offensive cleaning odors means our uniformed professionals are naturally less disruptive in any setting. We're completely self-contained, our equipment comes inside with us. We have no umbilical tied to a loud, droning vehicle parked outside avoiding much of the mess and tangle of hoses and cords. chip We can't your corners or scuff your walls. And, we'll never leave an outside door open for hours at a time so pets, children and conditioned air remain inside where they belong. '

and where does the dirt really go?

up in your pads? encaped away in the depths of the carpet backing?

don't worry about the op machine rattling the china off the cabinet or moms picture off the wall.

chip We can't your corners or scuff your walls. yes ma'am we have these big bumpers on my swirly machine and play bumper pool with your furniture

 

[alazo1]

It's hard to bash vlm when most of us do it in com. arena (op or cimex).

 

[Brian R]

I don't bash them, I just tell the client "every method has its purpose, I can clean any way they want, just residentially, I prefer HWE, commercially a combination"

Don't let it get you mad, just think of a better way to position yourself without bashing the other guy and usually you are the victor.

Hope this helps

Give the customer what they want.
Explain everthing honestly and let them decide.

 

[DevilThomas]

Mikey's right as usual....no one system is adequate to the needs of all carpets...a professional carpet cleaner should be prepared to meet all carpet cleaning contingencies....using all the tools necessary to provide the best results.

 

[Walrus Gumboot]

My point is that I never see steam cleaners mention the inferior VLM method in their advertising.
So why does EVERY VLMer feel the need to mention steam cleaning in their advertising?

The method obviosly does not stand on it's own.

 

[Walrus Gumboot]

Nothing worse than a one system hack.

One system hack here.

 

[Walrus Gumboot]

I've been cleaning VLM (Dry Foam Extraction)aprox.16 years. All my customers tell me that I cleaned their carpet better than a steam cleaner. It's an approved method by the IICRC. The method is not inferior. There are a number of inferior technicians that uses any method. Including HWE.

The problem with a number of HWE cleaners is they have a mind set that they are better than any body else and talked bad about any method they don't like..

It seems that Stevie Bs don't like his local competition.

you don't miss much,do you?

 

[steve frasier]

Educate, don't bash

I was wondering when someone was going to call Wayne out, don't take that the wrong way Wayne Ivebeensold

many method BDCCHack here :shock:

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[John G.]

I thought I felt a warm wind down here, it was just Steve with his daily dose of horsecrap..

Insecurity sounds like to me!


What a bunch of hot air!

 

[Jimmy L]

.

 

[bob vawter]

I thought I felt a warm wind down here, it was just Steve with his daily dose of horsecrap..

Insecurity sounds like to me!


What a bunch of hot air!

John's not havin' a good day!

 

[Wayne Miller]

You're kidding, right, Steve? Never? It's everywhere. How many websites have you seen list all the poplular methods and end the list with something like "this is the method we use and it's the method recommended by....yada, yada, yada." lol And, those are the nice ones. I quoted a steamer. HWE uses a lot more water than VLM and comparing the difference bothers you? lol

We used HWE in Florida. It worked great, I loved it. It was nice not having dirty pads to wash at the end of the day. Sometimes it would be nice. Some of my customers, on the other hand, would need a little convincing. They've been there, done that. VLM is a niche. We didn't create it, we only fill it.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

Not all non steam cleaners are VLM, some say they are VLM ,but I have a local guy that only has a just a roatry 175 and scrubs anything he can put in the tank. There are times when I end up with his work after the second or third year of his really bad work. Even with a truckmount and the RX20 still can,t get it clean.He tells people don,t use steam cleaners they damage your carpet. So thats the story here. I guess it,s like a fairy tale the story is the same it,s who and how they tell it. I,ve been a steam cleaner over 28 years and it,s still my favorite, but I.m learning to VLM a little at a time and it.s not all bad, it,s fixed a few problems that steam would not. A good cleaner properly trained will do well with whatever they have to work with. jack z.

 

[John G.]

A good cleaner properly trained will do well with whatever they have to work with

Way to go Jack Z, good to see some wisdom around here, sometimes the highfive parties get a little nerdy!

 

[Wayne Miller]

That's what I tell most people who ask about cleaning methods. If you hire a competent technician who takes his time and wants to do a good job it doesn't matter much what method he uses. You'll be satisfied with the job. At least in my experience, most folks appreciate the candor.

 

[John G.]

Hey Wayne, doesn't this kinda feel like a deja vu?

 

[Wayne Miller]

lol, John! We have kinder, gentler boards these days. lol

Shame on me, I knew I'd ruffle somebody's feathers but that really wasn't my intention.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

The only thing that matters is what your customer thinks. I was told this by my mentor, and now after having a few years of experience I believe it even more. There are way more rich people that think they have to have their carpet dry cleaned. They don't even want to risk having their carpet soaked by a steam cleaning company. I guess that is why Chem Dry does well with the high end market. My mentor promoted circular dry foam cleaning (shampooing) and did really well targeting high end customers. Almost exclusively referral.

 

[sweendogg]

[quote="Tony Dees":1myxc6k8]I don't bash them, I just tell the client "every method has its purpose, I can clean any way they want, just residentially, I prefer HWE, commercially a combination"

Don't let it get you mad, just think of a better way to position yourself without bashing the other guy and usually you are the victor.

Hope this helps

Give the customer what they want.
Explain everthing honestly and let them decide.[/quote:1myxc6k8]


Brian.. I can't bring myself to agree with give the customer what "they" want completely and here is why! The customer usually has zero real eduation in flooring care. So granted you could give them a two hour tutorial and then let them attempt to make a decision. But just like a doctor has several different approaches to a problem with any given circumstances so we would be as cleaners.

Each method is a tool in our tool box and each has there place. Some need to be used in tandem with others. Others can be a stand alone in the right circumstances and some methods are almost required over others. A VLMer can not physically remove pet urine from pad an subfloor with out some extraction machine. A HWE guy can't compete with a maintenace account if he doesn't offer a low mositure, higher product method.

Like I said, they are tools available to us as cleaners. Some of us have the entire automotive shop. Somepeople only carry around a sledge hammer and screwdriver.

 

[Walrus Gumboot]

The only thing that matters is what your customer thinks. I was told this by my mentor, and now after having a few years of experience I believe it even more. There are way more rich people that think they have to have their carpet dry cleaned. They don't even want to risk having their carpet soaked by a steam cleaning company. I guess that is why Chem Dry does well with the high end market. My mentor promoted circular dry foam cleaning (shampooing) and did really well targeting high end customers. Almost exclusively referral.

The only thing that matters is what your customer thinks?
Well, your customer wouldn't have a negative image of steam cleaning if there wasn't so much negative advertising about it.

Your mentor is Bob Rock?

 

[Wayne Miller]

I heard a lot of interesting comments when I came back to Maryland. There aren't a lot of low-moisture guys around here so the majority of our old customers used HWE.

Of the first hundred or so, probably half mentioned little or nothing about their experience while we were gone. A handful said it was okay. Two said it was great. Two said they'd replace them before they went through THAT again. At least half complained about having wet carpets for two days. Mrs. H. said it was FOUR and all the cleaner would say was "put down some fans." Here aunt was more fortunate. After the second day they brought a fan to her. Most said, "it didn't look as good." Half talked about reappearing spots. I'm finding soap residue where there's never been soap residue, I've seen dark, nearly impossible to remove lines under the bull nose of steps apparently from dirt pushed along by the water stream and not removed. I spent four hours at Mrs. R's, the last guy accomplished the same task in 55 minutes........

Some of the comments were about cleaners I know. "Well, they have employees, you lose a lot of control with employees." Do you ever tire of making excuses for other folk's carelessness?

Negative advertising isn't the problem, it's IDGAS technicians.

Here's a page from our old web site, the part about shopping for a cleaner didn't make the cut, http://pdqmarketing.com/drynamic_old/mo ... ethods.htm. I noticed it's not in yours either.

And, like I said before, there's nothing I say that you couldn't say too. Here it is again, slightly reworded to make exactly the same point,

Steam cleaning is a powerful and effective tool for cleaning any carpet. A concerned carpet cleaner wrote to an industry magazine some years ago about hot water extraction, often referred to as "steam cleaning." His equipment sprayed pressurized water into the carpet at a rate of three gallons per minute, or one hundred-eighty gallons per hour. His concern? At that rate, even if ninety percent of the water were recovered there could still be as much as eighteen gallons unaccounted for. His concerns underscore our training and extra care we take in making sure we leave your carpets as clean, fresh AND dry as possible when we're done.

 

[LeeCory]

Their is a simple reason you see the comparisons in the vlm ads.

They are informing the customer up front that they will be bringing in a floor buffer to clean their carpets so the customer isn't surprised.

Nothing worse then when you drag in your buffer and a customer asks you what you are doing.

customer: What are you doing?
you: cleaning your carpets mam
customer: where does the dirt go
you: it's sort of like magic, it all goes into this pad
customer: why is my carpet starting to look all fuzzy?
you: it's your imagination, it will all be fine when I am done
customer: doesn't hwe clean better
you: of course not, these pads are rinsing your carpet
customer: how did you clean my whole house with only 5 pads?
you: each pad will hold up to 20 lbs of soil
customer: the last guy had a machine in his van and said it was the best
you: which ever method we have is what we always say is the best