Best Encap Juice For OP/Cimex?

[rhino1]

Has anyone used any good encap juice lately? I usually use Rick G's stuff from Excellent Supply and have good results, but some don't care for the scent. I tried Vac Away - smelled better but didn't clean very well.

 

[Mikey P]

Vac A Way is a brand. What formula did you try.

I really like their ENC and Hot Knife.

I fact I just bought two more cases.

 

[The Asian Sensation]

I agree. Vacaway's stuffs are the best for Op'in.

 

[rhino1]

I used the Tsunami DS and Enc DS, and one other (Whamm?)that helps with pet odors - they smelled good, but didn;t seem to clean as Releasit.

I think I will try the Hot Knife though.

 

[Jeremy]

I use them all & how did it look dry side by side?

 

[Guest]

Snap from Clark, Encap DS, Whamm (in combo w/Z Bomb) & Hot Knife from Steve at VacAway...

Dilution rates are important, along with what boosters you are using....

Along with what kind of pads you're using.....synthetic pads=scrubbing and application of Encap juice, but not much in the way of soil removal...

Cotton or new Glad pads=scrubbing and application of juice along with soil removal.

 

[J Scott W]

Give us a shot. Try a gallon of Encapuclean. If you don't like it, I'll make sure you get your money back.

Scott Warrington

 

[The Preacher]

Scott, why not send it free and if it does it's job a case order should follow???

i like crystallizers over film formers!!!

 

[The Asian Sensation]

I think Scott's offer is already generous as it is. BUt, If youre planning to send it out for free....At least charge for the shipping.

 

[rhino1]

I don't clean any floors for free- not even any demo's, I sure as hell wouldn't expect someone to send me some cleaner for nothing.

Jeremy, what Boosters are you putting in your Juice, if you don't mind the Q? I haven't used any, but Sod. Percarb. is what I've heard some use.

As far as pads, I use cotton pads and fiber pads with the 'Mex. Also, a cotton pad with the Dirtnapper on my 175.

I was wondering about the Encapuclean and also the Cobb stuff, if anyone uses it just for Encap. Also wondered if anyone ever used Surround?

Sometimes I go so far as to use stuff at 2X the dilution rates with less moisture and that solves some problems, I just haven't been blown away by any Chems lately.

 

[Derek]

Chris,

besides Releasit i like Cobb's which is a "filmformer" (not a "crystalizer"), and i liked Surround when i tried my sample.

for scent, Surround smells the best, from what i've used & in my opinion.

Hot Knife worked great as well.

Snap Encap works wonderful to. dries fast and i would say has the least amount of "scent" in it.

and i agree with you, after Encap'ing for the past 3 years i have finally realized i get much better results when i use ALL the encap's @ double the recommended dilution ratio, which i do 95% of the time.

pick your poison --- Derek.

 

[Jimmy L]

"filmformer" is just another term for the old style SHAMPOO.

But its ALL SHAMPOO.


That why they say when you scrub it look for a little foam!

Er I mean "Whiteness" around the pad or scrub brush!

 

[hogjowl]

Jimmy's right, of course. It's all really just shampoo under a fancy name.

I like buying from Steve Smith at VacAway simply because his Hot Knife is a really great product, but also because his encap line of spotting products are the most extensive and best performing products in the industry. 1-888-942-0124

For film formers, I really like Soil Blaster Pro. Available at TCS 1-800-783-9890

 

[Derek]

For film formers, I really like Soil Blaster Pro. Available at TCS 1-800-783-9890

better than Cobb's? if so what are the bene's of it?

thanx --- Derek.

 

[-JB-]

What, no one uses CTI Brush & Bonnet?

I love it!

 

[J Scott W]

The distinction made between "film formers" and "crystallizing" products is basically marketing or semantics. By the scientific definition, none of the encap products dry to true crystals.

The difference is in how brittle the film is. A very brittle film has the advantages of breaking off easier when vacuumed. This leaves minimum residue after vacuuming. A less brittle film can encapsulate more soil, especially oily soils. But it is not as easily removed when vacuuming.

Crystal as defined in one science dictionary - A homogeneous solid formed by a repeating, three-dimensional pattern of atoms, ions, or molecules and having fixed distances between constituent parts.

We have photo micrographs of many encap products. None of them form three dimensional crystal as defined above.

Some of the film shatters readily, some does not. The real points to focus on is how concentrated is the product? How does it well work? How long does it prevent resoiling? Can the cleaner and occupants tolerate the smell of the product.

The term crystal is a red herring used to differentiate one product from aother for marketing reasons. Call it a crystal if you want. A dish of dried encap can look like little crystals. But calling it a crystal doesn't make it clean better. What it looks like dried in a dish can be significantly different from what it does when it dries on a soiled carpet fiber.

Even though the product by itself does not form a crystal, a crystalline shape can be formed when the film surrounds a three dimensional object. All good encap products do that.

All encapsulation residue is more accurately a film. If accuracy is the issue, then it is time to stop using the inaccurate word crystal when discussing encapsulation.

If you want to concentrate on results rather than words, you can find several good encap products on the market.

Scott Warrington

 

[SteveSmith]

A less brittle film can encapsulate more soil, especially oily soils

Scott, my friend, I have the utmost respect for you, but I have to completely disagree with that statement.

The more of a high quality brittle drying polymer a product contains the more soil it will encapsulate and thus be vacuumed away.

As for encapsulating oily soils.... Sorry, but none of the encap products will actually encapsulate oil or grease; they are all water based. Oil and water still do not mix!

A simple test, anyone can do, will prove me right... simple mix any encap product in a saucer with oil or grease and allow to dry.

Once dried, as much as possible, the oil/grease will still be there in a liquid form and not encapsulated at all! Sprinkle the saucer with black pepper and watch it readily stick to the UN-encapsulated oil/grease.

Even if you use the encap product direct out of the jug without diluting it with water you will get the SAME results.

A good encap product will certainly help cut through the oil/grease. It will aid in emulsification and help separate a portion of the soil from the oil and into the encap juice where it can be vacuumed away once it has dried brittle.

The oil/grease can not actually be encased or encapsulated by a water based product (all encap juices are water based). Many encap juice manufactures make this claim, but the above simple test will show it isn’t possible for oil or grease to be encapsulated by water based products.

Less brittle or film forming products are much cheaper to produce, usually sell for less and are more profitable for those that produce them. High quality brittle drying polymers are very expensive.

Our company uses a brittle drying polymer not used anywhere else in the carpet cleaning industry. Due to its high cost, it would never be cost effective enough for the "Big boys" with multiple middle men and private labeling to use it in their encap products.

The fact that oil/grease can't be encapsulated is the reason I believe a pad or bonnet used with an encap juice will do a superior job and can be repeated time after time... the pad/bonnet will absorb the oil/grease where straight encap machines such as a CRB or Cimex will not.

If a CRB or Cimex is used, a periodic Hot Water Extraction or Absorbent pad/bonnet will eventually need to be employed. How often? That will depend on how much oil/grease gets tracked onto that particular carpet.

BTW Rhino... If you aren't happy with the results of any VacAway product, we will give you a complete refund... Please give us a call so we can make things right for you. Our money back guarantee is rock solid and we will always stand behind it.

Thanks,

Steve Smith

 

[hogjowl]

WHATEVER, Scott.

Derek:

Is it "better" than Cobb's Encap Pro? I can't say. Any difference in performance is not detectable. At least, not so far.

Why I like Soilblaster over Cobb's stuff is the smell. Every product I have ever tried that has a pleasant odor to it has had one major flaw. The odor is too slight to be detected by anyone more than 20 feet away, and doesn't last more than 30 seconds, or so. When I would complain about it to the mfg., they always say the amount of fragrance added is calculated so as not to offend the average person. The Soilblaster folks must not care about the average person because it's fragrance is strong enough for the lady to smell it in the other rooms, pleasant enough for them to comment on how nice it smells, and lasts long enough for them to smell it if they come in later after I'm gone.

Most carpet cleaners (and customers) figure if it "looks" clean, then it must be clean, and I can't argue with that logic. LOL! However, I'd add another factor and say that if it smells clean, then the homeowner thinks it must be clean, as well.

 

[Jimmy L]

That Steve Smith is one NO BULLSHIT man!


And thats why I like him!

 

[J Scott W]

Steve, I do agree with you that oils are not encapsulated. I should have used the term emulsified to describe how the oily soils are dealt with by the encapsulating product. I was being simplistic.

I meant no disrespect for your fine product. Our product (although different from yours) also forms a brittle film, so I was not knocking that aspect.

The point I wanted to make was that the distinction about "cyrstalizing" or "film-forming" in mostly marketing and semantics.

There are always trade offs. You pointed out the benefits of a brittle film that breaks loose from the fiber easily. Someone else may say that a thicker, less brittle film stays on the fiber longer and offers some protection against wicking or future resoiling.

There are several good encap products. Each cleaner has to determine what works well for their market.

Scott Warrington

 

[Guest]

I agree with Martin on the smell factor...

For residential use, we use Wham/Z Bomb combo, and the powder scent smell from the Z Bomb causes the lady of the house to comment just about every time about how nice and clean their house smells....

I let Steve do my chemical formulations for me...so that I can do what I do well....

Okay, as soon as I find out what I can do well, I'll do it......

 

[SteveSmith]

Someone else may say that a thicker, less brittle film stays on the fiber longer and offers some protection against wicking or future resoiling.

I agree 100% Scott. There certainly is a measure of protection with a film former. The protection they offer is against quick re-soiling since the fibers are coated with the film former.

One thing most people probably don’t realize though is the they offer no protection against water and oil based spills. They don’t protect in the same way as a fluorochemical does. I know you know all of this, I am just providing it for those that don't.

We have an excellent film former in the works, but we are working on making it with an fluorochemical additive as well. Not a problem for us to do... The trick is in keeping the cost down so it will be affordable to the average carpet cleaner.

Scott, as always... YOU are the man with answers!

Thanks my friend,

Steve

 

[cleanex]

Spin Vac from DSC has served us well for several years, as they say at DSC the proof is in the pudding, and they make great Puddings.

 

[captaincarpet]

I have always found DSC products to be consistently high performance.
They may cost a bit more but are sure worth it! I use their spotters exclusively.

Scot's foam dry encapsulation product has a pleasant scent and also works well. Rick G's product cleans very well but still needs work on the odor. John G's products worked well. I have not tried either DSC's product or Steve's so I can't say for them. I agree what works in your geographic area may not work as well in mine, so keep trying until you find what works best for YOU.
All these products are constantly improving their respective formulations, so as time passes it just keeps getting better for us the end user.

As always... IMHO

 

[diamond brian]

I've tried 'em all, and they all work equally well/poorly. Now, if I carried a microscope around to observe the alleged crystallization, I could probably prove myself wrong.

 

[rhino1]

Steve - I will give you a call to see what went wrong with the juice I got from you, obviously alot of CC ers are happy with your chems and I do like the scent.

I do agree that using a bonnet with encap definitely gives a better showing than simply scrubbing it in.

BTW, I don't know a crystal from a potato, but it sure sounds better than "I'm going to leave a film on your carpet."